Building Student-Centered Classrooms with Miya Hourani 

Please note, this transcript is generated by AI and may include some errors. 

Spencer Payne: Okay, here we are with another episode, front of the class, real stories from real educators with a repeat guest, Miya Hourani, who was just so fun last time that we had to come back for round two with a lot more in the weeds tactical how to type type of a conversation here at this time. But first for those Mia who maybe haven't seen our first episode, please go check it out.

Miya Hourani: Hahaha

Spencer Payne: Can you give us a little background of where do you teach? What do you teach? How'd you get into teaching? What's educational story?

Miya Hourani: It's so good to be back with you on this podcast. I had so much fun the first time, so I can't wait for this round. I want to say round two. I teach in Kuwait and I teach eighth grade language arts. Long story short, and I love when I say this and you giggle, and I hope I get a giggle this time. I really didn't want to get into education. It was on a whim. It was the last thing I wanted to do in my entire life.

It just, I want to say the way my life rolled out, it fell into place. And along the way, I realized that it was my true calling. And the more I got into it, the more I wanted to learn more, the more I wanted to educate myself, the more I wanted to inspire. And I can't see myself doing anything else but educating younger people and the youth. So that's my life in a nutshell at the moment.

Spencer Payne: Indeed, the accidental, excellent educator. And so inspiring the youth. We'll dig into that and we'll dig into this again, more tactical, how you run your classroom, work with parents, all kinds of stuff. But can you just talk a little bit more about this inspiring of the youth and maybe what you have seen so far, how you know you're doing that? how, if anyone could have that aspiration, but maybe at the end of a year or five years after teaching a grade.

Miya Hourani: Hahaha. Right.

Spencer Payne: How do you get some sense that you actually are living up to that aspiration? So can you share a little bit more about that? Or how do you live up to that goal? And how do you know you're on the right track?

Miya Hourani: I if I compare when I first started teaching to the generation that I'm teaching right now, our kids these days have a voice. And I think sometimes they have a misunderstanding between the very fine line of speaking their mind and giving their opinion and just being very bluntly rude and saying, you know, this is boring. This sucks. I hate your class. I don't want to be here. And the thing about them speaking their mind and giving their thoughts about whether or not, you know, they like what you're giving in class can be a good thing and can be a horrible thing. Because if you're an educator that's not accepting to criticism, especially from you know, a room of children who may not know what they're talking about, it may hit you hard.

And so it's not difficult to be, I'm not going to even go into an educator, being an adult in a room with teenagers who just, you know, they're looking at you like they're about to murder you and they wish death upon you. You can feel that they're unhappy. And so you know, it's extremely important to build an environment from the get go. And this is what I do with my kids. Listen, you know, I respect your opinion and I respect your voice, but there's a time and place and you telling me that something's not working or, you know, you're not enjoying it matters to me because at the end of the day and what we're rooting for today, I believe is a student centered classroom, student driven environment and so when you're not keen on the parameters and you just i want to say just you know set a dash of sparkle for your parameters and let the kids set their own parameters to their learning it makes a difference.

So yeah i've heard kids say Miss Miya listen i love you but today's class sucks i don't understand what you were talking about i have no idea what you're talking about i don't understand these phrases these terminology, like I don't get it. And so I take a step back and say, okay, how can I help? How could I, what can I do to make it more beneficial for you, for you to learn something and for it to be fun? So I listen.

Spencer Payne: And real quick, if they're saying that, are they doing it after class? Are they just raising their hand and blurring it out loud? Are you asking feedback during the lesson and then you're inviting that? How is that coming about?

Miya Hourani: Absolutely, I invite it when I read the room and I can see you know the kids that usually get things really quickly have a completely blank face and so I'll stop for a minute and be like are we good guys and Then because again, there's that environment of a safe space and honesty You're gonna have a kid say I don't understand what you're saying. And so I'll get go and be like, okay let's take it back a notch talk to me and so they'll say what they think.

But that takes time because if you don't set, I wanna say the boundaries and foundation of that relationship, you're gonna have kids come into class every day and say, oh, I hate this class, I don't, I'm not in the mood, I really don't like this topic, it's so boring, I don't wanna learn today. And so you can't, oh, okay, sweetheart, that's fine, let's, no. And I tell my students this. Especially for English because it's so abstract. You want to give your opinion? You better back it up. You better have a valid reason to shut me up and say, listen, Miss Miya, I don't get it because. And at this point, as an educator, I'm going to say, you know what? You have a point. Your reason is valid. I hear you. Let's change it.

Spencer Payne: Any examples of that? like, like I would love to get into even the weeds of this. So for example, let's just say it's you've invited some of this in your day one first week. Like you want it be a good back and forth with your students. They're maybe wondering, do I believe you or not? Right. Or what does that really mean? And then maybe on day 10, a student just says like, this is boring. Like this isn't fun. Like this is not a good class. I want you to stop teaching this way. Like how do you then.

Miya Hourani: Right. Right.

Spencer Payne: Like, do you then stop of like, okay, I hear you. And what is your reason? Like, how do you, how do you then foster taking that and taking it to somewhere productive? Cause that as a, as a statement, like you said, like that's not really useful. This is boring, this Mia. So how do you take that somewhere productive with a because and show them you can have a complaint, but that's not good enough. I need some, why I need some, like, are you not understanding the theme of this? Like, how do you, how do you take that to that next level?

Miya Hourani: Okay, so you may believe me and I know that this sounds absolutely bizarre, but I go into the classroom thinking that I have to take content that is going to be relatable to my students. And students at the age of 13, 14, I'm gonna give you the unit that some of them dread and that's poetry. Oh my God, when I say, guys, it's poetry month, oh!

No, emotions, my feelings, ew, I'm in a gag. I'm like, hold up. It doesn't have to all be lovey-dovey and you talking about rainbows and butterflies. And so when I initiated Poetry Month, I went in with a poem from Tupac. And yes, the rose that grew from concrete. And I went in, I'm like, hey, have you guys heard of Tupac? Some of them are like, yeah, oh my God, Tupac. Cool. What do you guys know about Tupac? Wasn't he like a rapper and, you know, they shot him and he was part of a gang and gang, gang. I'm like, all right, cool, awesome. But do you know where rap comes from?

And so I brought something relatable to them and we read it and they're like, seriously, like, this is the poem's four lines. Miss me. I'm like, oh, I know it doesn't have to be a freaking essay of stanzas of you telling me your feelings. But there's a message behind it. What's the message? What do you understand from the poem? And think about this man. Think about where he comes from, who he is, what he relates to, who his identity, what his identity is all about. And then they start to go into their feelings. Now you're going to have kids, you're going to be like, I don't feel anything. All right. What are you passionate about? Nothing. What do you do in your free time? Nothing. You have those kids, right?

And so the challenge there is trying to make them understand that you... Like I have a kid, I kid you not. If I were to hum, he'll fall asleep. just... Not because... And he said to me, he goes, Ms. Mia, I love you. Your classroom is not boring. Okay. But I can sleep anywhere at any time. And so with this, I kid you not. So me and him had to come up with an understanding. Like, listen, bud.
If I sing you a lullaby, are you going to fall asleep? And he'll like, and I said, you know what? Write me a lullaby. And he goes, excuse me. I said, write me a lullaby, create a lullaby. There's, I'm Spencer. I'm not even joking. He goes, you for real? I said, if you write me a lullaby with literary devices in there, you can sleep. And he thought it was, I'm like, I'm not joking. Seriously, write me a lullaby. And so we did.

And he went all out and he'd have like a standing ovation and the kids went crazy for him and he had, but you need to find what moves them. So have I, with kids telling me, you know, it's not so much boring as much as it is, I don't understand. And that's where your leveling comes in. That's where you have to cater to your different levels in the classroom and your different learning styles in the classroom. And you really need to give time to understand your students. So I always go into class with ammunition and a backup plan because I don't want to go in with, and I've done, they've found love for Edgar Allan Poe because I've told them he's my favorite, one of my favorite writers of all time. Really, he used to be so old. You're nearly as old as him, Miss Mia. And I'm like, oh my God, calm down, please. Calm down. My feelings are not even close, but.

Spencer Payne: Not even close, actually.

Miya Hourani: You know, you need to find the little loophole of a passion that's going get to them, where you can reach them. And I haven't had a kid come say, this is boring. I've had a kid say, you know, I don't understand. Okay, let's break that down for you. Some kids will say, listen, this is really cool, but...

I want more. I feel that I could get this done in five minutes. Awesome. Then you have kids that you need to challenge. That's where the letting kids set parameters comes in. I've learned that the hard way. I've learned that after five, six years of education. But when you put parameters in the students' hands, magic happens. Magic happens.

Spencer Payne: So two quick questions. like two quick questions. How did you, when you introduce Edgar Allan Poe, he's one of your favorites and you're met with resistance. So old, so boring. Why? How did you make Edgar Allan Poe interesting?

Miya Hourani: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

I legit said he's a psycho and they go, I, I'm, I'm not even joking. like, I love him because he's a psycho. He's crazy. And they go, what? Like, he's, he's absolutely insane and he was depressed and you know, he ripped up his work. And if he was alive right now, he would have been, and he still is one of the most famous writers of all time. But he was, you know, he lived in a time where society shunned

Spencer Payne: Ha!

Miya Hourani: writers and they thought he was a loser, but everything that has to do with his writing is dark and depressing and psychotic. And I love his story. And I always start with a telltale heart and they're like, what do you mean? What happens? I'm like, well, we got to read it to find out. And they were obsessed. And I love that last, the ending of the telltale heart because they're just like, where, what happens next? Where's the rest of it? Miss me. And I'm like, well, that's what do you mean? Why?

Why would you let us read something like this? We want to know what happens next. I'm like, well, that's the beauty of writing. But that's what I say. Why do you like it's like he's so old his pictures in black and white. What is wrong with you? And I'm like, because he's a psycho. And they're like, what? That's that's all I have to say. That's all I have to say. And so they feed into it. And we did mock trials. I did a whole mock trial of the Telltale Heart.

and I put in witnesses, the neighbor, a psychiatrist, I made up all these things and we turned the classroom into for and against. And we got parents involved and the parents were the judges. They had to decide based on the evidence and what they came up with if, you know, the narrator was insane or when he's an actual convicted murderer. But you have to make the classroom come alive. So that's...

Spencer Payne: And perfect. Thank you. And you also mentioned parameters. Sorry, you're you're throwing so many golden nuggets out there. It's hard to remember a real back. Like, what do mean by that? But setting up those parameters, what's, what are examples of parameters that, that you have set up for your class that seemed to work really well? And then how also do you reinforce those? Like if a kid is going too far away, like how do you reel back in to operate within the parameters? Again, you seem to give a very freewheeling, open, honest discussion in your class, but what are some of the parameters that you set? And then when people go outside the bounds, how do you reel back in?

Miya Hourani: So I like giving my kids choices. So with the kids that need the reinforcement and the support, their tasks are usually simpler. Just getting down to the foundation and the basis of understanding what we're about to dive into and delve into, and then challenging my overachievers to go above and beyond and create and produce or investigate. Giving kids the option to learn in different styles, express in different ways that could be... I have them write on my tiles. So my tiles, my classroom is filled with tiles. They take board markers and they go ahead and they write their observations and their opinions. And then I give them time to go and comment on one another after they finish their task. You have your online platforms. You have people that like to animate and draw.

And just understanding that the objective, you can achieve that classroom objective in different ways is okay. It's gonna be different and you're gonna have different input, but that's not always a bad thing. And having them reel in, sometimes I don't Spencer, because sometimes they go that extra mile and they come up with information that I didn't ask of.

And so they'll come and be like, Hey, guess what I found? Did you know that this, this, this happened? Like, no, I didn't. yeah. You know, I was checking this out and I found that. And I think that's so interesting. Well, go ahead and write it down, add it onto what you found. And so that allows for discussion between them because it's so hard. One of the things I find so challenging now is for, for, for the kids to be open enough to discuss with one another and to think that what they're saying is valid and it matters and to be heard. And when you do think it's not you have 15 minutes to read this, you know, essay or this story and tell me what you think. No one's going to want to do that. I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. I don't learn that way. So just giving them options, choices.

Hey. Here's your choice board. You have eight options. You have 30 minutes. You can do one, take it all out, or do two if you finish one. Go ahead, knock yourself out. And the kids that are my high achievers, by default will pick the challenging option. And the kids that need the scaffolding and support will pick what's comfortable to them.

But then when you do that again and you eliminate the options that they've already done, right, your kid that needs the support will challenge themselves to take on something more challenging and new. And so it just, pushes your students to achieve more and greater things just in different ways. That's what I mean by having them set the parameters.

Spencer Payne: Yeah. One thing that one idea that just hit me as you're saying, you know, this student went out and researched more or did you know this Miss Mia as a game? I don't know if you're playing this or maybe this is a bad idea or maybe it's maybe this is a bad idea, but like, I could see how you could make a game of like, can you stump Miss Mia? Right. And you're like, all right, we're going to talk about Edgar Allen Poe. He's my favorite. Here's why I like him. We're going to go through this one. And then at the end of the day or week or however long you're talking about him of like, all right.

I've studied him a lot. I've taught this for this many years. Can you stump me? Can you find something else out about about Edgar Allan Poe or whatever topic it is, right? That maybe I don't know yet.

Miya Hourani: And that's an amazing idea because kids then connect to you as an educator. this happens every year. As soon as I finish with Edgar Allan Poe, throughout the year I will have two or three students who read more content from Edgar Allan Poe. They find an interest and they relate and link to the author. And that gives me joy because I've walked into class- not saying that this is a check mark that I have to do because it's part of my curriculum- but it's because when they see that you're passionate about something, they're going to feel that passion. It's energy. You're exchanging energy in the classroom. And that's what makes the classroom successful. It's a very, very important factor. Very important factor.

Spencer Payne: there's one other thing you said, I want to highlight of, know, you're kind of pretending to be maybe a boring teacher of like, just go read this for 15 minutes and then write and just tell me what you think. Or, and one other way that can spark interest is asking better questions. So instead of, Hey, what did you think? Right. That's a pretty generic bland. I don't really know where to go with that question, but sometimes, sometimes a more direct question, like. you know, just to make up a scenario, right?

Maybe there's two characters in a story. Hey, which one do you think was right and why? Which one do you think was wrong and why? Or do you see, I want to hear, do you see any tensions of where these two people might, they might not be on the same page and why, and where do you think that might lead? The point being is you can just say like, tell me what you thought, but.

Miya Hourani: Yes, absolutely.

Right.

Spencer Payne: That's very generic. I don't really know what to do with that. There's more specific, tangible questions that you can ask that can spark much more meaningful conversation. Like, what did Tupac mean with the, why did the flower grow out of the cement? What does he mean by that? Have you ever seen a flower grow out of cement? Didn't you wonder how in the world is that possible that it grew out of this?

Miya Hourani: Right.

Spencer Payne: Anyway, there's the power of questions that you can ask also can make or break potentially the interest level in your students. I just want to highlight that because I'm guessing you're quite good at that. You've already shared some. Are you all familiar with Tupac? Do you know that he was actually a poet? Do you know the history of this? It seems like you're moving the room with the power of good questions as opposed to just generic bland questions that get generic bland answers.

Miya Hourani: Absolutely, absolutely. You're right.

because it's like you're pitching a product. If you don't have a strong pitch, you're done for. You're done for. No matter what resources you have ready and material you have ready, if you don't initiate your pitch properly, they're gonna lose interest. And you're absolutely right. It's about what you're asking. It's not you.

You can't, and I say this to them all the time, for me, you can't have a right answer in English. You can't. You are giving your own analysis of something based on, you know, your inference, your background knowledge, what it is you're reading and why. And that's the beauty of words. That's the power of words. So, yes, asking specific questions that can lead to a discussion is so important. I agree. Thank you for saying that.

Spencer Payne: Well, thank you for sharing these phenomenal, very, very tactical examples. you mentioned parents a little bit earlier and with the tell, tell heart kind of having them potentially play kind of judge and jury. can you share a little bit more about how you work with parents? How do you have a conversation with them upfront of what to expect in your class? What not to expect in your class? You know, have you ever had any issues with parents and how do you address them?

So there's a lot of ways you can go with that, but can you just share a little bit of like maybe to start off with, how do you get on the same page with parents of what to expect in your class at the beginning of a school year and what they should expect of you? How do you let them know that and hold you maybe to that standard throughout the school year?

Miya Hourani: I think it's really important at the beginning of the year to meet with parents and invite them into your classroom and for them to understand the atmosphere of the class per se. With me, the reaction is always the same. They always walk in bewildered and they're kind of confused because I have flexible seatings. So I have couches and beanbags and I barely have, I think I have three single tables. I don't do desks. It's not my thing. But flexible seating works with my kids. have kids that sit on the floor. I have bean tables. So they come in and they're like, you have sofas. And I said, yes, have a seat. Let's talk. You know, they're like, what is happening right now?

And so I start the conversation with, you know, I understand that you want your son and daughter to get an A. That's not going to happen the first two weeks of school and they're like, what? Like, yeah, I'm sorry. It's just not going to happen. It may happen, but it probably won't. And that's okay. And you need to understand that that's okay. You need to trust that your child is going through a process of learning and that's going to take time and effort and support from you and from me. And if I don't have your trust, it's not going to work because you badgering your kid at home, you got an 85, why don't you get a 90 when your kid started off the year with a 75. That for me is a breakthrough. That for me is you having to say, Bravo, I'm extremely proud of you.

You're going to get that A eventually because it's not magic and we're not selling, you know, coffee and having a market of A's. It doesn't work that way and that's not how I run. That's not how I work. And I, especially with eighth grade, it's that fundamental transitional period into high school. And if your child doesn't have the skillsets they require to make it in high school, that's more important to me than a grade.

So parents leave class with that understanding of, you know, my philosophy and they get it and I tell them email or call at any time any day and I have so many teachers that say I can't believe you check your emails after 3 p.m. I'm guilty yes I am guilty because when I have a parent who's concerned and needs that support from me not supposed to do it yes granted but I do because parents work until 5, 6 p.m. They're not done at three. They come home to a house full of kids and they're trying their best to follow up on their child and I appreciate that. And an email is gonna take me 10 seconds. It's not a catastrophe and the end of the world. If I respond to an email, that's only gonna take 10 seconds of my time.

And because I'm extremely personal and I like to personalize my relationships with parents, I will always, even after that email, the next day I'm at school, I will pick up that phone and be like, hey, how's it going? Talk to me. What are you worried about? Let's work it through. And thank goodness I've never had a single issue with a parent. I've had parents that have cried. I've had parents that have called and said, why did my kid get this grade? And I'd explain. First of all, what's going on at home?

Is he tired? Is she tired? Are they sleeping well? Are they stressed? Are there other assignments going on? Yes. Okay. But I want you to know something that your child is doing the best that they can. And sometimes I have to have hard conversations with parents. Like I'll call a parent and be like, uh-oh, it's Miss Mia. Hi, how are you? How's it going? Listen, I need you to smack your son over the head when he gets home and then like laugh about it. And you know what I mean? Like it's just a...worried about him. I need him to pick up the slack. He's not listening to me and I need you to do a pull a mama move or a dad move and say, hey, we need to talk because I

Spencer Payne: Is that an actual conversation that you have had with a parent kind of in that joking style and then what happened as a result?

Miya Hourani: And absolutely because they know and they appreciate the conversation ends with, thank you for caring about my kid. Thank you for calling me and not waiting for my child to fail to tell me, hey, what happened? Your kid's failing. I don't wait for the kid to fail. When I see a change in behavior or a flop in grades, I pick up the phone, what's going on? you know, he's been busy or she's been busy with friends, extracurricular activities, wonderful. But you better sit your kid down over the dinner table and say, hey, Miss me gave me a call today, she's worried about you. And before I do that, I don't tell the kid, I'm calling home today, you better watch out when you get, no. I'll have that one-on-one conversation like, hey, are you good? What's going on? You know, you're not.

You're not performing like you usually do. Should I be concerned? Is there something I need to know? Are you having a hard time in class with the content? Are you tired? And we have that honest conversation, but I always back up that honest conversation because as much as I love my kids and trust them, having the support of their parents and having that three-way communication and relationship is super important.

And parents appreciate it. can't tell you how many times where I've had, I've picked up that phone and had that call where parents at the end of the conversation say, thank you for calling me now and telling me about my kid not waiting until progress reports or report cards come out. And it makes a difference.

Spencer Payne: Yeah, there's a, there's an old quote from, you know, completely different context, right? This is business world, like Warren Buffett, investor, multi-billionaire. But his comment was very similar as along the line of, you know, when we have really good managers, you know, we don't need to hear the good news right of the way, because the good news will take care of itself. Like it will, we'll figure out how to reward people, kind of stuff, but bad news, we want to hear right away upfront kind of no BS because then we can do something. We can change course, right?

Miya Hourani: Absolutely.

Absolutely, absolutely. And that's the thing, you could do something about it. And so many times, teachers tend to forget this part as well. It's so important as well to pick up the phone and call home and tell mom and dad the good news too. Hey, all the time, all the time, especially with a kid that's put so much effort, mind you.

Spencer Payne: Hmm. Is that something is that something that you do? Like when when a student? Yeah.

Miya Hourani: It doesn't mean that that child's an ace student. But if I see a kid working their butt off in my class and I can see the passion and energy and just attempt to strive in my classroom, I'll make a call and be like, hey, I know that the grade is not where you want it to be right now, but let me tell you something about your kid. They've been trying really hard. They've been active and engaged and happy and I can see the effort that your child is putting in my classroom. just want you to know that I appreciate that so much. I'm really proud of them.

Spencer Payne: That's a great, that is a great learning for those out there too of if you, if you, if you only ever call when bad things happen, but you never remember to call when the good things happen, like you're perceived differently. And when, and when you do call with the good news and you're appreciative and they can like the parents know that you care.

You buy so much credibility and trust for if something happens where you have to have the like, Hey, we've fallen off. Like what's going on here? Like they know you're not just playing bad cop all the time. You're playing good cop, bad cop. You're just looking out for the best interest and you buy yourself a ton of trust when you're also just showing appreciation to the parents when the child is really making progress over and above whatever they started out with. So news folks, right? Don't just call when something bad happens. Call when something good happens too.

Miya Hourani: No, no and I'm telling you we tend to forget that I don't know why we're under the impression that if we're making a call home it's you know it's the it's no I have to give parents bad news. Why? You know parents want to hear I've had so many parents legitimately cry over the phone from that two minute conversation and with a thank you because they also realize that their kid is putting the effort.

They're trying to support the kid at home and hearing it from you where you're with that child every day, where you're with that learner every day, it goes a long way. It does go a long way. And that same child may fluctuate, you know, it's their teenagers, their children. And sometimes you have kids that are not consistent, but it's your job to also say, your kid's doing a good job. I'm really proud of him and you should be too. Because parents need to hear that sometimes. It's important.

Spencer Payne: Yeah, that's a hundred percent. Yes. And the kids do too, right? The kids need to that, that, that validation that you, you, I see you, I see you, I see you working hard. They need that. They need that validation sometimes that, that the effort that maybe they think they're putting in is, is seen it's noticed. you, mentioned earlier, one comment around maybe other teachers here that you are looking at email after 3 P. And wonder, are you, why are you doing that?

Miya Hourani: Absolutely, absolutely.

Right. Right. Bye guys.

Spencer Payne: Can you maybe share a little bit of, obviously what they do works for them, what you do works for you, right? Like what works for one person doesn't always work for another person. Like you gotta be authentic to yourself. And at the same time, when you see something that's just worked so well for you and others don't do it, how do you interact with other teachers or how do you when someone says, why are you checking your email after three o'clock? Is part of you like, well, why don't you? Because this works really well for me. Don't you see how my class is run? Great grades, great attitude, great progress at the end of the year. Like I've got teachers, I've got parents who maybe cry because I'm calling them at 6 p.m. when they're finally home from work because they're not available before three about the progress their kids are making.

Doesn't this inspire you to want to call the parents at six o'clock? So I guess where I'm going with all that is like, how do you interact with teachers who maybe question how you're doing things when it's working really well for you and you're getting great results? And like, how much do you want to be like, well, why don't you do this? Don't you see what's working in my class? why?

Why don't you care this much? Like how do you balance that and how do you try to inspire other teachers maybe without scolding them? Because no one wants to be scolded, right? Of like, how do you try to inspire other teachers to get a little bit of this magic that you bring to the table? I realize that there's a lot there, but like, how do you think about that?

Miya Hourani: I try to have a civilized conversation, let's just start there and not get very defensive when, you know, I'm in the middle of a conversation with teachers that say, you know, I check out at three, I'm done at three. My question is, my first question is, why? It's been a long day. Okay. Understandable.

Teaching is a career. And I said this, and we had this conversation before Spencer, for me, being a teacher, being an educator is as important as being a doctor. It doesn't end. Having a seven to three job is one thing, and having a seven to three job that requires you to look at the bigger picture and the fact that you are in a career that is demanding of you and there's that unspoken rule of you needing to maybe work after hours is something else. Because at the end of the day, and I say this, I say, put yourself in that parent's shoes for one second. And mind you, usually the parents are very apologetic. I'm so sorry that I'm emailing you at this time, but I just got off work or I couldn't...

contact you earlier or call the school to have a conversation with you. But I'm a little bit concerned because so and so. I said, if you were that parent and that was your child and you were trying to reach out to the teacher, the person that they know is going to give them some sort of insight and impact that is going to calm them down, that is going to reassure them that there's a solution. How'd that make you feel?

I pretend like I'm in a classroom with little kids and I use the same skills and techniques that I would with a child. And then I get silent. Said, how much time is it going to take out of your day to sit there and respond to this parent? And your email could be extremely generalized and say, thank you for reaching out. When I have a minute tomorrow, I will make sure to give you a call and we can discuss this further. That in itself, that one sentence will bring peace to a parent.

And that's what I say. I say, it's not just about you. This isn't about you. This is about a child that you are, you are inspiring and teaching to be a better human being in the world, which is, mean, that doesn't really look well when this is how you act and react. And there are parents that put trust in you where they know that they see you more than they see their own child throughout the seven hours a day. That's what I say. And I say, know, and then I'm getting this sentence. I get paid to work until three. It's like you're grabbing a knife and stabbing it right in my heart. Okay. Granted, if this is what you're looking for and maybe being a teacher is not the best paid job, you're in the wrong career, bud.

You're in the wrong place. You are affecting people's lives, kids, children's lives. You impact a child. That could be negatively and that could be positively. And you not responding to this email and mind you, and I'm not saying that it's urgent, it's not urgent, but being kind enough and we teach empathy. It's what we teach at school, to be empathetic. If you're not setting that example, starting with yourself, then I don't think education is for you. And I've said that a lot. And I have a lot of people that don't talk to me right now because I, this is, this is, this is the conversation. And I'm telling you, I try to be very diplomatic about it, but it's not. I say what you and I are having a conversation right now in a cup of coffee. What's going to lessen from you and your being and your life if you take 10 seconds to respond from your phone? Please enlighten me. Go ahead. Answer me. it's, it's the Prince of what principle, where's the principle from this that you're not getting paid to send an email. Come on. Come on. It's it. I don't, I can't make sense of it.

And I know that it's, I don't like that I'm saying this and it's the honest truth, but we can't be in this when we're not in this. You can't be in this if you are really, really not in this. And so, I always try to lay it out in a different angle. Put yourself in this child's shoes. Put yourself in this parent's shoes. I'm not telling you write an essay. I'm not telling you get out your laptop and see where this kid stands. Just be nice and send an email and say, listen, thank you for reaching out. I appreciate your time. I'll give you a call tomorrow and figure it out tomorrow. It's 10 seconds of your time. Come on.

We need to, we have to stop. And again, if we are not in it for the career, then we need to start thinking about other options for jobs. It's not, you're not, it's, you can teach, but not everyone can be a teacher. I'm sorry. It's, is what it is. A lot of people can teach, but not everyone can be a teacher.

Spencer Payne: Hmm. From the accidental teacher who didn't want to do this profession in the first place. And now as the most passionate proponent of, of making it a truly a career. one thing I do want to hit on before we take off here is some of the trends that we're seeing. over the past, you know, six plus years that you have been teaching, I'd love to hear a little bit more about like what, yeah, what, what is what.

Especially if you talk to other teachers who may be teaching for 10, 20, 30 years, right? What are you seeing with students today compared to six years ago? And do you talk to other teachers of compared to 10 years ago, 15 years ago? Are kids today smarter, better, more distracted? Or maybe choose your own words, but how are students today compared to five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago?

What trends are you seeing just in, again, attention spans, what they're interested in, what they're not interested in, et cetera?

Miya Hourani: I'm going to say something and it's going to hurt me. I may cry when I say this because I did cry when it happened. I think two weeks before school ended, I did a little experiment with AI. at one point in class, I told kids to search up words and they couldn't use AI. And they go, how are we supposed to search them up? And I went, Google. yeah, Google. And I went, My God, I nearly had a heart attack. Like, Miss Miya, my God, we forgot about Google. We don't use Google anymore.

Spencer Payne: Or maybe we forgot about that thing called a dictionary.

Miya Hourani: I'm so past done. I've put the dictionaries away. That's fine. But the fact that it did not resonate automatically that there's Google because they're so used to AI, I felt like my heart was about to stop. they're like, do you need a glass of water? Should we call for help? And I'm like, how? We don't use Google anymore.

And so the difference that I've seen is...Are they distracted more frequently? Yes, in a sense where I feel like students today need to move around more. It's not as much their attention span as it's the idea of not being constrained to one place and being able to move around the classroom.

And that's where your stations and your group work and just having different things going on in the classroom really helps out. It always has, but now more than ever, bathroom breaks are a trend. The amount of kids that these three years that I've seen, can I go to the bathroom? You just walked in, class, I need to go to the bathroom. It's 7 a.m. drink a lake? what do you... we joke about it. But then I realized that it's the excuse of having the chance to get out of class and walk around. Hence brain breaks. And that's a big thing now. I didn't know what brain breaks were. I didn't realize that they were a thing. I thought they did brain breaks with little kids. But no, no. Brain breaks are as important for middle schoolers and high schoolers.

And I was talking to teachers that, know, friends of mine that work internationally and they had said the same thing. They go, my God, the bathroom breaks. Sorry, go ahead. Brain breaks. Yeah. Brain breaks is you giving kids five, 10 minutes of your class time to unwind. That could be breathing exercises. That could be putting a puzzle together, playing chess.

Spencer Payne: And for those who maybe haven't heard the phrase brain break, what does that mean? How does that come about?

Miya Hourani: doing a crossword puzzle, just walking around coloring a mandala, just different ways to have their brain unwind, listening to music, just chilling out for a minute, focusing on their breathing, because their wellness is extremely important and they need to feel like they can breathe and be in their element for a minute to then continue on with what your lesson is about.

It's super important and it's super effective. It's very effective with kids today. So I suggest...

Spencer Payne: There's a, as you say that, as you say that I'm reminded of a movie with Tom Cruise and Jamie Foxx called collateral and Jamie Foxx, the cab driver and under the visor of his car, he's got this like postcard of like a beach with like Palm trees and like, know, there's, you know, someone's in his cab yelling, arguing, telling him something. And he just like pops that open, looks at it, like pops it back. And so it's his vacation and he's talking to somebody about it. He's like, I go on vacation 12, 13 times a day. And that's, guess before that term brain break, like that was his version. All it took was like, I just need to look at this beautiful picture of a beach and palm trees and sand and water. And all of a sudden like, okay, I'm good. Yeah.

Miya Hourani: Right.

Yes, I just need a minute. It's when kids just need a minute and you need to give them that minute, especially if they're sitting in classrooms for 70 minute blocks or 60 minute blocks or 90 minute blocks. a different time and age. So bathroom breaks and using the excuse of going to the bathroom just to have a minute has peaked. It was never, never a thing.

And again, some teachers will take it personal and say, no, you can't go to the bathroom. need to understand that they don't necessarily need to go to the bathroom. They just need a minute. So give them five minutes. It's not the end of the world. You know, you're going to finish your class. Trust me. It's okay if you don't, you know, you're not on time every minute of your class. It is okay. Teachers need to understand that you are not dealing with robots in the classroom. And you saying, yes, finally I did what I had to do does not mean that every child in that class left your classroom understanding what the purpose of the class was. It's super important. Listen to your kids. Read the room. Understand what works and what doesn't. And be OK to adjust.

Spencer Payne: And on the note of AI, what are you seeing in the classroom right now? And is it helping? Is it hurting? Do students just regurgitate whatever chat GBT told them to say? they, they, does it, does it make them not pay attention as much? Like, just, just like, what are you seeing in the last one, maybe especially the last one to two years, 18 months or so, especially like how has the proliferation of AI changed your teaching experience and your classroom experience for the good or for the bad and how do you use it or embrace it?

Miya Hourani: Spencer, do you remember when computers came out and the internet came out and the world went into this whole rampage of, my God, the internet, the books, it's the end of the world, what are we going to do? And then we eventually bought into the internet and adjusted. I'm sure that 90, if not 95 or 100 % of teachers are using AI to help with their resources, with their lesson planning, because we have a lot of teacher-driven and educator-driven AI tools to help us with our classrooms. So you can't sit here and say, I can use AI because I'm a teacher, but my kids can't. No. I'm flipping my classroom and it worked. And I can't tell you how much I read and I can't tell you how much I planned.

And I walked into class one day and I said, listen, I know that it helps you, but there's a way, there's a proper way of using AI. So let's test it out. I told them, I want you, your homework for today is to go home and come back with an AI generated essay. And they looked at me like, are you, are you okay? This man, like, yeah, go home, ask GBT to create an essay for you and eighth grade humanized essay, just like you humanize it, and print it and bring it to class. And they didn't take me seriously at first. I'm like, guys, I'm serious. This is your assignment. And so they came to class and we broke it down. We figured out the tone. We figured out the repetition. What seemed unnatural to them.

What would be something that they would use? What was a strong thesis statement? Was there enough evidence in there? And we legitimately broke it down. And they annotated it and they put their comments. said, wonderful. Now look at it again. What needs to change? Where is your identity and your voice? And they revamped it. And they go, okay This makes sense. And this is what I suggest teachers do.

If in our school right now with AI, we're trying to flip the classroom using AI. We've blocked AI in school. It's not okay. We don't have it. They can't go into platforms, websites. It's off limits. And we're a school where we have a no homework policy because we have enough time in the classroom to get the work done. But if you're someone that says, you know, I need more time and then go home and AI your work and come to school and say, hey, this is it. I mean, you know your kids, you're going to tell if I love pulling this stunt. Like I'll have a kid use a word that I never seen my entire life. Like I don't, can't even, no idea. Like, Hey, could you come here for a second? Just a quick question. Could, could you

Spencer Payne: Hehehehehe. What's that word mean?

Miya Hourani: No, no, could you just read this for could you pronounce it for me? And then like the look at me and they'll go with I'm sorry. I'm just having a hard time. Don't have my glasses. It's just really hard. I have a brain fart right now. Could you read? And they're like, they're giggle. I'm like, why? So when I did this whole restructuring of AI, I told the kids at the end of the year and I deliberately wanted to do it at the end of the year. And I said, use AI, but use it properly. You have to understand that it is not your brain, it is not your voice, it is a tool to help you generate your thoughts, generate your questions. It's okay for you to ask AI, help me put together or paraphrase my ideas to come up with the paper that I want to write and then take that and roll with it.

But look at the work and the editing that you've come up with because the essay that you asked to degenerate was not what you were looking for and they really appreciated that because again, it's something relatable. And I said it to them, I said, if you get caught using AI, it's a fat zero. And it's now a form of plagiarism. And if it's a fat zero, that's academic dishonesty and you're in trouble. And in high school, there's no joking around because you have exams and you have papers due and they understood that.

And I said, and if I'm going to sit here and tell you that I don't use AI, I'd be lying to you. I do use AI to help me structure my thoughts and ideas, but I don't let it generate the work for me. That's not me. And you can tell if I were to come to class and I did it, I came to class and I put my lesson plan. I did it. Legit, and I sat there and I'm like, okay guys, let's go. And they all looked at me.

Spencer Payne: Mmm, there you go. sho- sho- actually show them. Here, like...

Miya Hourani: Like, what's wrong? What's up? And they go, what is this? Said, what do mean? This is what we're doing for today. Like, but you don't usually start the class like this. That's not how you write your objective and our to-do list and our check marks for the day. Like, oh, it's not. Oh, but I thought this was easier. Is this not? No. And then someone said, you used AI, missed me. I'm like, oh, did I? Did I now?

What's wrong with AI? mean, isn't this what we're doing? And they go, no, this is not what we're doing. We don't do this. I don't know what this means. I'm like, okay, bravo. Bravo. And why did you come up with that? Because you have your own voice and you have your own thoughts and you have a mind of your own. It is a tool. Use it. Use it right. And I'm happy that I ended the year with that because it clicked and they took skills and techniques that they could use properly for AI. And I suggest that teachers flip their classroom if they're in an organization or a school that's allowing AI in the classroom. So it could be extremely hurtful, but it could also be useful if it's taught to be used correctly.

Spencer Payne: Hmm. thank you for sharing that. That's a really interesting example. I never thought about of have AI generate your lesson plan tomorrow, go do it as it would do it. And then have the students kind of call BS, right? Like this isn't, this isn't what your classroom is like. that's a really interesting way of showcasing the limits that it has and the lack of maybe authenticity, right? Because it's not, like you said, it's not your class anymore.

Miya Hourani: Uh-huh.

Spencer Payne: This is a generic AI. Anybody could do this version. It's not you. It's not your class. It doesn't get the best out of them. so that's a really insightful, maybe, maybe high risk if you're a teacher who doesn't have a very authentic style like you do, but there's a very interesting way of approaching it with given your, your authentic, very unique style. well, Mia, this was fantastic, wide ranging, much more tactical hands on. How do you do this?

Miya Hourani: Great.

Spencer Payne: Wait, a student said that? How did you react to that? Type of a conversation. So thank you again so much for sharing all of your wide-ranging experiences in the classroom. Mia, the accidental but extraordinarily passionate educator. Thanks so much for joining us for round two. Appreciate it.

Miya Hourani: Right. Thank you so much. This was awesome.