Building Teacher Confidence with Angie Haller

Please note, this transcript is generated by AI and may include some errors. 

Spencer Payne: Okay, here we are with front of the class real stories from real educators and our real educator today is none other than Angie Haller. Angie, how do you introduce yourself to others in this educational space? Like what do you teach? Where do you teach? How long? What are you working on today? How do you introduce yourself to others who are in this world who kind of have an understanding of what it is that you're talking about?

Angie Haller: Yeah, well, thanks for having me. So although I played a lot of different roles in the world of education, I always tell people I'm a teacher by trade. Teaching, being in the classroom is where my heart lies. I have done a few different things throughout my career. I've worked in private public charter schools. I've taught mainly elementary, upper elementary, but I've also kind of dabbled in administration. I've done a lot of teacher training. I've worked with teachers in a lot of different capacities. Right now I am working as an instructor for Moreland, which I absolutely love because I get to work with teachers all the time, which is one of the things I love doing.

Spencer Payne: teacher of teachers right now again so can't highlight this enough for those of you listening if you go into teaching thinking I'm just gonna do the same thing for 30 years here's another example where that's not necessarily true at all you can kind of make this your own and take this down winding paths if you seek some more adventure within this profession as you like and and Angie will go back a little bit and then we'll focus more on on

Angie Haller: Absolutely.

Spencer Payne: The theme here is we're going to be talking a lot about building teacher confidence in this episode today. But first let's explore your path to building your own confidence. So how did you start teaching? Like how long ago was that? What was your first classroom like, et cetera?

And on a scale of one to 10, what would you say your confidence level was within that first year? Like one being not confident at all, 10 being fantastic. And let's explore after that a little bit of how you built that over the years. So where did you start teaching? When was that? And what was your confidence like that first year?

Angie Haller: Yeah, that's a great question. So I never intended to be a teacher, which is kind of a theme on a lot of the guests that you have. I love your podcast because it's kind of all of these teachers that never really intended to be a teacher. And that was my story as well. I never intended to be a teacher. However, once I kind of found that path, I really fell in love with it. So I graduated college in 2002, kind of fell into luckily my first teaching job.

I was teaching fourth grade at a Catholic school and it was a little bit terrifying. mean, I was teaching, actually, I take it back, it was fifth grade. My first year was fifth grade there. It was a little terrifying. I definitely did not feel that I was a 10 in the confidence department. I had just come off of teaching first graders as student teachers, as a student teacher. And so here I am working with these fifth graders and I have all of these parents and it was really just like incredibly overwhelming.

And I think, even now, I look back to that first year of teaching. And I think every teacher does this, where you look back after you've kind of got some years under your belt. And I think, wow, did I know what I was doing, right? Like how much I could have just served those students if I'd had a little more experience. So I definitely went into that experience not being confident. But I think that's one of the great things about teaching is that you have all of these people around you that are from all of these...different walks of life and they have all this different experience. And so when you're in a school and you can draw on all of their experience, it's a really quick learning curve.

Spencer Payne: Yeah, perfect. And let's talk about that learning curve. And was there a moment? Was there a year, the next year, four years in whatever it was for you? When do you feel like it started to click where you're like,  I feel really good in front of the classroom. I feel really good in front of the parents. I feel really good with my administration. So for those who might be about to start their first year or they're in their first year or they're about to start their second and they're still like, this is hard. This is overwhelming. Give them a little preview of where the light happened for you. When did you start to feel like I've got a handle on this? I've got this. Like explore kind of what the things you were to build that confidence. But when did that happen for you?

Angie Haller: So it's interesting because I've been at a few different schools and so I feel like I've had multiple moments like that moving from school to school. I will say at that very first position, it really honestly was probably my third year, my second or third year there. And what made a huge difference was the team teacher I was working with. She was slightly more experienced than I was.

But she, to this day, is one of my mentors. My friend Kelly is just, she was an amazing teacher and she and I were able to work together. We actually ended up getting placed in fourth grade together and we planned together and we shared ideas together and having that support, like having another teacher there that can support you, that can...you can bounce ideas off of that can just kind of be that sounding board is so critical. And so even though I was still a really new teacher, I think having just somebody a little more experienced to kind of guide me and to be right there teaching the same things I was and working with some of the same students, was just a really great experience.

But what's interesting then is once I left that school, and I moved to California, I moved out of state, I got a job in a new school and I feel like you almost started ground zero. I'm working with a new population of students, I'm working in a huge district, I'm working with people I don't know, I have new administrators that I kind of feel like I have to prove myself to. And that again, I feel like I've had that experience at every location. So I've been in three different schools  and even starting working for Moreland. I think that as a teacher, you kind of go through these phases where you get comfortable and you build that confidence, but then something changes, right? And it might be a new school or it might be that you're placed in a new grade level or you have a new curriculum. I think that as a teacher, there's just always, there's always challenges, which is part of why I think I like it. But it does mean that you're constantly on that journey to find confidence.

I don't think it's ever something that you can look back and say, yes, like I've conquered teaching. Like I've got it. I think that it's always going to be this like learning.

Spencer Payne: Yeah. And if we, I'd love to go back to that time with Kelly, your, your team leader, mentioned he was a couple of years more seasoned than you. what are some of the things that she did to help you build your confidence? Like you mentioned, you know, there's just having someone to bounce ideas off of having someone a little more seasoned who's done some of the things that you're about to do or tried to do. but what can you get into a little bit of the how, like what, what did, what did she do? Anything in particular specifically to help you, build your confidence, maybe try things, understand if they didn't work, how to handle it. What did she do? How did she help you in that?

Angie Haller: Yeah, so Kelly, she's just such an amazing, she's an amazing human. She's such a great teacher. She's a principal now. And I think when I look back on our early years together, it was really interesting for me to watch her because we have very different personalities, both just in general and in the classroom.

And so I would watch her like instantly build these relationships with students. And I would think like, I want to do that. How do I do that? Right. And I would see, you know, lessons that she had designed in ways that I, just wouldn't have thought of. And so I think just having, having that kind of open relationship with any teacher that is willing to mentor you, where you can really dig into what they're doing and you can be vulnerable too  because there were many days after school where I'm in her classroom saying, wow, this was a disaster. Did you teach this lesson today? Because I tried and here's what happened. And I think sometimes as teachers, we hold ourselves to these really high standards. so admitting that you aren't perfect is really hard because we have all this pressure and...

We would kind of think that we have to be perfect, right? But being able to be vulnerable with someone and just say, you know, like I tried this, didn't work. You know, what did you do? Can you tell me? And we just developed this friendship. it was just that type of situation where I knew even if it was the middle of the day and there was something really tough going on, we had a really tough group of kids one of the years we worked together. And there were days where we're having conferences together with  kids out in the hallway because all of our kids are intermingling at recess and you know just knowing that you have somebody there to help you with that hard stuff I think that that it's so key I mean just finding that person and then being willing to be vulnerable with them so that they can show you the ropes.

Spencer Payne: 100% like it's, hard to ask for help with a problem if you don't admit first to yourself and then to that other person that like, Hey, this is something I want to get better at that there is a problem first. Really quick, really quick side note on this conversation on this with Kelly and kind of being your mentor either formally or informally. How did that happen? Like, did you ask like, Hi, will you be my mentor? Was it much more informal than that of like, Hey, you seem like someone who I've aspired to be like, like, can can I can I

Angie Haller: Yeah.

Spencer Payne: Grab some time 20 minutes once a week and just throw some ideas out there. Ask how you handle this situation. how did you establish that relationship for those who might be thinking like, yeah, there's this other teacher over there and I sure would like to learn from them. But like, how do I ask them?

Angie Haller: Yeah, no, that's a great question. And I have a couple different actually scenarios that I can share. So with Kelly, it was interesting because the school we worked at was relatively small. I sort of fell into the position a couple weeks before school started. They needed a teacher. I happened to show up at the door. And so we were close to the same age. We were both teaching within a pod of fourth and fifth grade. So we all kind of shared students.

So that made it a little bit easier where I was already working with her in that context. There were four of us working together that we all shared students and taught different content areas. However, I think that after we kind of saw this is something that we can kind of help each other, we can be a support, we actually requested to teach the same grade. And so there were some changes at the end of the school year and...we were able to partner up and teach together. And so that was really great. Not everyone is lucky enough that that is their situation. But I know too, in the other schools I've been at, like there are times when you just have to be willing to go to that teacher next door and knock on the door and say, hey, do you have a minute? Because I've been there.

Like in the school that I worked at, in the second school I worked at, I was definitely a fish out of water. I was dealing with a brand new student population that I didn't have experience with. And I was in a new place as well. And so there were just so many changes for me. And I had to be willing to just kind of step out and say, I don't know the curriculum. I don't know what to do in this situation. And so being able to go to someone's door and knock and say, hey, can you help? which isn't always easy as an adult period, you know, but teachers are the best people. Teachers are the best people to work with because I guarantee you, if you knock on a teacher's door and say, hey, I need help, you're not gonna be turned down.

I don't think I've ever been in that situation where, you know, I've gone to another teacher and said, hey, I'm struggling with this and had them turn me down. So I think that's one of the great things about the teaching profession is that everybody there is really there for the betterment of the students. And if they can help you so that you can help the students better, they're going to do it.

Spencer Payne: And now that you're in this more teacher of teachers role, maybe you are playing the role of Kelly to many other people. what, anything, are some of the very common pitfalls that you see first, second year, early teachers fall into and what is, what are some of the practices, the tactics, the strategies that you advise for how to bounce back, how to build that confidence.

How to go from feeling overwhelmed to not feeling overwhelmed. So can you share a little bit about some of the, maybe some recent advice that you've given to some soon to be or early teachers around how to not feel so overwhelmed and build that confidence that yes, you may have not thought you were gonna be here either, but you're here and you can do it. So can you share a little bit, given your perspective of you are a Kelly to many people right now, what are some of the most common advice that you give to people? What are some of the most common strategies that you advise them to start?

Angie Haller: Yeah, that's a big question. So I think that the biggest thing I will tell new teachers is that you do, there's two things. You have to be willing to admit that you're not going to be perfect. Because again, I think it goes back to so many teachers kind of having those perfectionist tendencies. And it's just not a reality. When you're working in a classroom with a lot of moving parts and you're brand new at it.

But also, I think you have to be willing to kind of lean into those things that you're scared of. For me, that's where a lot of growth and confidence has come. You know, yeah.

Spencer Payne: Any particular examples? Anything in particular that you remember of like, I'm afraid of this thing, so I better do it.

Angie Haller: Yeah, actually there's two specific things that come to mind. One of which is working with parents. As a first year teacher, I was terrified. I was 22, I didn't have kids of my own. I'm walking into this classroom of 20 students and 40 parents and it was a little terrifying. But I think that for me, the great thing about it was because I was so aware of it,  I may be overcompensated for it. And I think that now communicating with parents is probably one of my greatest strengths. I find a lot of joy in working with parents. I find it like, it's just such an honor to know that these parents are entrusting me with, you know, this small human being who is, you know, their everything and that I get to play a part of that, that I get to be a team with them. And I don't think that I would have had that kind of experience if I hadn't kind of leaned into that fear as a first year teacher. But it doesn't just happen as a first year teacher either.

So when I moved yet again to the third school that I worked at, I was in a different teaching situation, of course. And for the first time in my career, I mean, I'm about, you know, 12, 15 years into teaching. And for the first time, I was tasked with one of the subjects I had to teach was history. I'd never taught history just because it was not  in my prior responsibilities. And I found out really quickly that I was not very good at it. And I didn't really like it. And so for a couple of years, we did the book and we did the questions and we did the tests. And then I realized this is really awful and it's really boring and I'm really not good at it. And those are the things you kind of want to push to the back burner, right? Like I know I'm not good at this, so I'm just kind of pushing under the rug.

But I decided I was just gonna like lean into this. so because of that, I worked with my administration, I got permission and I kind of redesigned how I approached teaching it. And so instead of just reading the book and doing the questions, we started doing crazy things. We would spend a week studying a historical period and then...I would turn my classroom into that historical period and we would do wild things all afternoon where we would, you know, eat food from that period. And I had a teepee set up in my room. We threw spears on the playground. We had a Spanish mission.

But like that experience would never have happened. Like all of those fun experiences that I remember, that I know my students remember and all of the learning that they took away from that, it wouldn't have happened if I wasn't willing to kind of lean into that thing I wasn't good at. So I think as a new teacher, you jump into your classroom and you're overwhelmed, I think you have to realize you're not gonna be perfect at everything and that those things that you find that you're really not good at, that you can't shy away from them, that it's okay to kind of dive into them and think outside of the box and find ways to really make them kind of something you really excel at as opposed to something that you're afraid of.

Spencer Payne: as a side note, think that's the second time I've heard a teacher on this podcast mentioned throwing spears on the playground. So I love that that's becoming a common thing. I'm going to find more people who I guess have done that. going back to your point about really getting on the same team and being proactive with parents. you, there's a couple of subtle ways that you worded things there for a second that I'd love to dive deeper on, but mentioned like, you know, I'm so glad I'm on the team with you. We're, we're having a shared goal of helping your child realize their potential. Like there's, there's some things there that you kind of alluded to. can you share a little bit of like, how, how have you had a successful, what's an example of how you've worded and had a successful parent interaction, say at the beginning of a school year, to be on the same page with expectations of kind of the expectations you have for them and maybe the expectations they should also have for you. cause sometimes that can be scary, right?

Like, so can you share maybe an example of how you've handled that later in your career? And maybe why you choose to phrase things that way, or why you choose to share the stories that you do with those parents and why that interaction works? So can you share a little bit more about that?

Angie Haller: Yeah, I, like I said, I feel like working with parents has become a really a strong suit for me. And I think there's a few things that I do right at the beginning of the year that really set it up that way. And there it's nothing groundbreaking. It's things a lot of teachers do.

But that first introduction, of course, is important. The teachers want to know who their child's, your parents want to know who their child's teacher is. so reaching out, of course, meeting them at your open house, all of those things are important. But one of the things that I always try to do kind of beyond that is I always made sure within those first two or three weeks of school, when I was getting to know the students, I always made a point to contact every parent  about something positive that was really like individual to their child. And it only took a minute, you know, to do that for every child. But I think it was really important because I think, you know, and I can say too now as a parent, right? When you have a teacher that reaches out and says, hey, I just noticed this really great thing about your child, that holds a lot of space in their heart, right?

And so when you have that experience as the first communication,  I think that it sends the message to the parents that this teacher is really interested in my child as an individual. They're clearly looking for ways they can help my child, ways they can get to know my child. And so that makes it easier too later on in the school year. If you do have a problem arise or a situation that you need the parent's support, it's a lot easier to reach out and ask a parent that you already have a relationship with.

So I think that that's really important. But the other thing too that I feel like I've always made a priority is being really just honest and transparent with the parents. I like to let them know what's happening in the classroom, what we're doing. I, you know, always have had weekly newsletters. I, for a few years recently, did like a weekly Facebook live chat where I would just hop on and go over what we were doing that week. I just think that when parents know that you're really honest and transparent, it just builds a different kind of trust. And I never had an issue or I never had a problem saying to my parents, you know what, you're right. I think maybe I'm wrong on this. And I think that when parents see like you're human and you make mistakes and you're just transparent about it, I think that it just builds a really trusting relationship when you have parents that are willing to support you, that also is just a huge boost to teacher confidence because that can be such a stressful situation as a teacher when you're dealing with all of these parents and their expectations.

Spencer Payne: Yeah. And that as a takeaway for those listening, that's something like you can be a first year teacher. You can be a 15th year teacher. Like anybody can go in the first week or two weeks or three weeks of class and find something positive that every single student did in that class and just let the parents know. anybody can go do that.

Some schools just started, some are about to start. kind of in that time period right now. That can be something any one of you can do right now and buy instant credibility with the parents that shows that you care, that you notice that you're paying attention. most calls people get from a school, I would guess are negative. So if they get a positive one, like what a difference maker you are all of sudden right off the bat as a new teacher potentially doing something.

Angie Haller: Yeah, absolutely.

Spencer Payne: And if you might be thinking, I'm going to share a quick story real quick. If you want to be thinking, Oh, but there's this one troublemaker. Like it's so hard to find something positive that little Johnny did. Uh, there's a, there's a story I heard one author talk about going to public speaking course and like everyone was supposed to come up and do like a quick two minutes. And this one person, you know, came up and just, you know, you know, total bombed, like obviously very frightened, very scared, you know, just not, no one was having a good time after that two minutes.

And it's all led by someone from like a Dale Carnegie public speaking kind of coach. And that person just said, wow, that was really brave. Right? Like you're obviously terrified at this. It was really brave of you to get up there and do this thing that I'm sure was very scary for you. Point I'm making there is just like, there's almost always a little something positive that you can tease out of any situation, even if the results were terrible, it's still really brave for that person to go face a fear that they were probably terrified of. There's almost always something you can glean. So thank you for sharing all that about about kind of building trust and confidence with the parents. I'd love to transition that into the actual students themselves. What what what are some things over the course of your career or things that maybe you teach new teachers to do in that first?

Angie Haller: Absolutely.

Spencer Payne: 15 minutes of a new class or the first day or the first week. cause again, you could employ something in February, but if you, if you're a completely different person in February that you were in the first week, people are like, well, who is this person? So what are some of those things that you do to, to develop that confidence in the first 15 minutes of a class, the first day, the first week that again, helps, set the tone with the students of who you are as a teacher, what the expectations are.

What are some things that you do and some things that are the things that you have done that worked really well for you? And some things that maybe you advise new teachers to do to be able to build that confidence early instead of just, my gosh, there's 20 kids, they're all screaming, like, what do I do? Like, how do you combat that? What are some things that you advise folks to do in that situation?

Angie Haller: I think that planning and routines in your classroom are your biggest friend. Anytime I work with brand new teachers, the best advice I can give is when you're approaching a school year, which like you said, a lot of teachers are getting ready to start right now. And whether you're a brand new teacher or you've been teaching for many years, my process would be the same. I would sit down and I would literally think through the every minute day  from my start of my day to the end. And I would think of what do I want it to look like? What do I expect from the students? What kind of routines do I want to have in place? And then when you as a teacher go into that very first day of school already knowing, when the students walk in the classroom, I know I have a routine. Just because it's the first day, it doesn't mean that we're gonna make it a free for all.

And I think too, you as a teacher, setting that tone, like you said, for the students so the students know, okay, like this teacher, she already has a plan, she knows what she wants us to do and we're starting from day one. I think that that's really, really key. The best teachers that I've observed, the teachers who I think are the most effective are those teachers who have really solid routines, procedures and expectations in place because then the students, there's no guessing for them. And I think that it's important to remember too that as a teacher, we have nerves on the first day of school because we have these brand new students walking into our room.

But we also have these brand new students walking into our room who have nerves about being there because they're with a brand new teacher. No teacher is exactly like their prior teacher. And so it kind of sets that anxiety, it kind of pushes the anxiety down for students too, when they know, okay, this teacher has a plan. She's going to tell me what to do there are already expectations in place. And so I think that that is gonna make your entire school year, it's just gonna make it run a lot more smoothly when that's how you approach your very first day, that very first couple of weeks of school is just by setting up those routines and expectations for the students.

Spencer Payne: Perfect. Are there any particular expectations? realize every teacher, many teachers might want to set those up themselves, right? Based on their unique personality, being authentic to them. For a teacher who might say, I've only ever student taught for three months. I'm not sure what my expectations should be.

Have you ever had a curiosity, have you ever shared a script or like, here's how I might approach my first day. Here's some common expectations that you might want to set. So for someone who's feeling lost of like, I don't really know what expectations I want to set. Any words of wisdom of some things that you might advise that person to potentially explore sharing on that first day?

Angie Haller: Yes, I think that you can kind of look at this and go down kind of two different avenues, if you will. I think for a teacher who doesn't know where to start and really wants something that's kind of already set up that I can just put into place, I'm a huge fan of whole brain teaching by Chris Biffle. He's an amazing educator and his system has five solid classroom expectations and you can literally start the minute they walk in and they're great expectations. I actually use those in my classroom many, many years. So if you want something that's kind of already clear cut set up for you, that's where I guide teachers. However,

Spencer Payne: And could you tease one or two of those? Maybe not all five, but could you tease a couple of those?

Angie Haller: Yeah, sure. Yeah, so whole brain teaching is fun because it's all about TPR, movement and lots of repetition. So they have hand motions that go with them. So the expectations are really simple, like raise your hand for permission to speak. My favorite one of those, and I think they've kind of morphed it since I started using it many years ago, but the last expectation used to be keep your dear teacher happy  because that kind of covers everything that the other expectations don't. you know, raise your hand for permission to speak, raise your hand for permission to leave your seat. They're very just common respect kind of expectations. But my favorite thing to do, and this is kind of going down the other path of thought where you involve your students in creating those, which...

Honestly, that's really, in my opinion, the way to go because when you allow students to kind of have a say in it, you're gonna have a lot more buy-in. And I was kind of able to use both trains of thought. So what I would do with my students, and I think you could do this even with young students, is when they would come in on that first day and we're ready to talk about expectations, I would give them three sticky notes and I would have them write, what do you think are three important classroom rules? and they didn't have to put their name on it. They could write anything they thought was important. And then we would create an infinity diagram on our whiteboard.

So they would take turns coming up. They would place their sticky notes on the diagram. And if they thought it kind of matched someone else's, they placed it going vertically. If it was different, it was horizontally. And then what we would do as a group, as a whole class, is we would look at those and look for themes. So we would see that there was a lot of students who said things like, you know, don't...don't push, don't shove, don't, you And so we can couple those into, you know, a classroom norm that says be respectful to others, right? And so I think when you do activities like that, you as a teacher don't have to have all the answers because the students already know, you know, unless you're working with very young preschool, kindergarten students, if you're working with students older than that, they know what the expectations are that they want. And so you can really get a lot of student buy-in if you  kind of involve them in that process and then you as a teacher can just kind of guide it to make it end where you're comfortable with it ending.

Spencer Payne: Perfect. Thank you for sharing that. Right. So there's, there's a couple for, for teachers out there, some things that you could either just go steal some of those, raise your hand when we speak some of those examples or co-create the experience with your, with your students early on in that process. there's a couple of things that potentially you get to go take away and utilize right here from this very podcast. and I'm curious, are there, are there any times where you specific examples or times where you felt like, man, I don't know if I can do this. I lost it today. This was a rough week or rough month, or I've really had a bad lesson that day. wasn't, whatever it is. any, particularly tough moments that you can recall in your teaching experience? and how, how'd you bounce back? Like how, how do you go back and rebuy that credibility either with that student or that parent or that administrator or whatever it may be? Cause the reality is we're all going to make mistakes. As you said, sometimes those are going to be understood.

Sometimes that might require a little apology or a little something on our side to be able to go make amends. So any particular examples that you might be able to share in your career where you just felt like I'm off today or I really didn't handle that well and how do you bounce back and maybe if your example involves an apology, how'd you do that? So how do you bounce back from those tough moments and what's an example?

Angie Haller: Yeah, gosh, I can give you a lot of examples. I think in teaching, there's a lot of room for making mistakes, right? I think though, when I think of it, when I think back on all of the different things that have just really gone awry, I think for me, it just kind of goes back to that idea of being transparent and human, right? I have had lessons that really just really were a disaster.

And there are lessons I've had where at the end of it, I just tell the students, you know what? We're just gonna try this again tomorrow, right? This just wasn't our day. This just did not work. But also, I'm a huge fan of just being real with students, right? We're humans and we have things happen in life and we have bad days too. We come to school sick and our favorite pet dies, right? We have those things happen and so I think in being honest with students and saying, I'm really sorry that I was so on edge yesterday, but here's what happened in my life. My cat died and I was really sad and I took it out on you guys and I shouldn't have. But also I do the same thing with the parents and I like to think that I've done the same thing with administrators. think it's just, like I said, it just comes back to being able to be vulnerable, which is not easy.

And sometimes it does take, you know, it does take time. It does take a day. And there have been students in the past, like individual students where, you know, maybe we really just kind of clashed and butted heads and the next day, you know, it's important to go back to that student and say, listen, I know we didn't get along yesterday and I'm sorry. And, you know, let's try this today. But I think the best teachers are those that can admit mistakes. And that's where it sometimes is hard because as teachers we don't.

We don't want to admit we're less than perfect, right? Because we have all of these little humans that are looking up to us and kind of put us on a pedestal, but being able to just be honest and transparent with them and apologize when it's needed. I think that builds a lot of credibility. And I think that that goes a long way too in building your confidence because then, know, even if I make a mistake, you know, my administrator or my students, they're not going to look down on me for it, right? They're going to see me as human as well.

Spencer Payne: Any proud, on the other end, instead of mistakes, right? Any proudest or coolest moments in the classroom that you can share? Anything come top of mind as you look back on your years in the classroom of just like, that was a day or a student experience or whatever it was that still makes you light up, makes you smile. Anything rise to the top that you can share?

Angie Haller: Yes, lots of them actually. I've been very fortunate. I will share one though. Several years ago, I was lucky enough to have a student teacher in my classroom, which is important to the story because at that time, this was a week where we had a lot of teachers out sick. We were really short on substitute teachers and there was a group of a class of fifth graders. I think there were fifth or sixth graders and they didn't have a sub for the teacher. So I said, you know what, let my student teacher stay here. I'll go sub for this other class. They happen to be a group of students that I had taught previously and I loved them. So it wasn't any problem for me to go spend the day with them. But for me, it was really validating because when I walked in and they saw that I was going to be their sub, I got this like hero's welcome, which is always heartwarming.

But for me, I think that it kind of drove home the point that like, as a teacher, I don't know, it's not always about how fun the class is, how much of a friend you are to students. Like my students knew I run a tight ship, I make them work and I make them work really hard and I make them work really hard every day. So walking into a classroom where they had already experienced me for an entire year, and they were still happy to see me, even though they knew I wasn't gonna be a push over sub. They knew they were going to have to work. They knew that it was not going to be your typical sub experience where, you know, they're gonna watch a movie and play games. But they were still like overjoyed to see me. And so that was really validating for me as a teacher, just to know that I'm doing something right. You know, I might be holding them to these really high expectations, but like look at where it's got them. So that was just, that was a really great moment for me.

Spencer Payne: yeah, thank you for sharing that. And, you mentioned about the spear throwing example earlier. like dive into that one and then we'll kind of get into some more rapid fire, quick hitter questions, like tying that in with building teacher confidence, right? Like. It'd be probably very difficult for a first year teacher to say, man, this history lesson seems really boring. I'm going to dress everybody up in this particular area of this time period that we're studying. And we're going to go throw foam spears in the playground or whatever.

So can you, I guess with that in mind, can you share a little bit about like, how did you develop the confidence to go like, I got to change something in this history class. This isn't really fun for me. can tell it's not fun for the kids. I'm going to experiment with things and I'm assuming some administrators you had to get on board with this. And if some of the things didn't work, being, being comfortable and confident enough of like, okay, that particular thing didn't work. I'm definitely not going to do that again tomorrow or the next day, even though I thought I was. Um, I guess, can you share me with the arc there of feeling the confidence to do something different? And even if it doesn't work, understand like that's okay. If I try 10 new things a year and only three of them work like compounded every year, then all of a sudden I get so much better in the classroom, but I gotta be comfortable failing maybe seven times out of 10. or four times out of 10 or whatever it is, can you share a little bit about that mindset of how do you finally get comfortable proposing something different, knowing that it might fail and still being okay with that?

Like how did you get to that point? And I mean, how do you advise others maybe approach something similar to that?

Angie Haller: Yeah, I've been very, very fortunate because I've had wonderful administrators, especially at my most recent school, that were so supportive. However, when you're brand new, whether it's a new teacher at a new school, that is really hard, right, to go up to brand new administrators and say, hey, I kind of have this crazy idea. And so I think my advice would be to make sure you have a plan. Like I was talking about the beginning of a school year and how planned out I was.

That's kind of how my brain works around anything I'm doing. So being able to go to your administrator and say, listen, I've tried this and it's really not working, but here's something that I was thinking and kind of here's how I see it playing out. I think when you go prepared with a plan, it not only gives you a little more confidence in showing that you've already thought through how you want this to look, but it also lets your administrator see that too. So they can say, well, I'm okay with this, but let's try this instead. Or yeah, go ahead and try it. Let me know how it goes. And again, too, like you said, you have to be willing to fail and to admit that because I'm sure if you talk to the administrators at my previous school, they could tell you some of the things I did that maybe did not go as well as we had hoped. And so, you you learn from those and you, you know, you take bits and pieces of each and you just kind of melded into, you know, the things that do work.

Because I mean, with teaching, it's, that's...the thing every year you're going to have a new opportunity and every year you can just kind of start to refine and revise what you did. But I think that not becoming stagnant is probably the key there because if you are afraid to try new things and afraid to fail, what can sometimes happen that I've seen happen is you just kind of become stagnant and you might be teaching the curriculum but you may not be reaching students in the ways that you think you are.

Spencer Payne: 100 % Yes, the way I remember that in school was the teacher who just gave a bunch of multiple choice quizzes and tests. They were obviously I'm sure very easy to grade. But my gosh, was it just like, a like we're not we're there's never there's no dialogue here. There's no like, well, if this then that like, how might I think about this? That at least that's that. was an example I remember of like, Oh, I think this teacher is maybe checked out a bit.

Like there's no conversation, there's no essay, there's no how might that work, it's just all A, B, C, D questions. I'm like this is actually a really boring class, no thanks.

Angie Haller: And it's boring for the teacher too. I mean, you know, in most cases the teacher's not having fun either. That's a huge red flag.

Spencer Payne: Yes. A couple more rapid fire quick hitter questions. And we hit on this one a little bit earlier, but to someone who's maybe about to start their first year teaching right now or next week or last week, because there's many teachers experiencing that right now, what's the number one piece of advice to someone you give in that situation? Or what's the number one piece of advice you'd go back and give yourself in that very first year of teaching if you could?

Angie Haller: So there's two specific things that I for years and years and years have always thought of when it comes to just kind of like my teaching philosophy and what I'm struggling like I always come back to. And they're not any profound quote. I don't even know who said them because there was something from many, many years ago. They're both actually sports related, but I think that when anything gets tough, like that's kind of what I go back to.

So the first story is about a young man who decided he was going to coach a baseball team and he'd never done it, didn't really know what to do. So he asked, know, an experienced coach, you what do I do? And this coach told him, you know, whatever you do, just make sure they're practicing batting. you have, in order to win, you have to score runs. It's all about the at bats. And that to me is something that I replay in my mind  for every lesson, it's all about the at-bats. If I have students struggling with something, whether that's learning the rules at the beginning of the school year or multiplication tables or anything else that I'm teaching, it's about the at-bats. Like I have to give them multiple chances to practice and show them what that looks like so they can be successful. So that for me has always kind of been something that I come back to when I have those situations where they're just not getting it, what do I do?

And then kind of on a broader spectrum, there's a quote and it's about tennis, which I don't play nor have I ever played tennis. But the quote is that life is like tennis, that those who serve well, seldom lose. And to me, that's really the heart of what we do in the classroom. So always remembering to go back to that. I feel like we're serving students, we're serving parents, right? Being that...that guide for their child. And I think that serving others in life is a huge joy. And so, you know, I always just kind of try and come back to that. Like if I'm serving others well, then I can consider it a success.

Spencer Payne: I'm on the note of getting all the at bats, which thank you for sharing that, in a similar vein, Jerry Seinfeld, right. Most popular show probably of all time, has famously talked about how, you know, writing a hit sitcom is just a game of tonnage or at bats. He's like, I would just, there's times where like, would just write every day, three hours a day, five hours a day. Didn't matter, but you can't miss a day. Like you just gotta go do it. and so on some level, like new teachers, like.

Sometimes you just got to go do it. And then if it wasn't a good day, like, cool, like on the couch, like, am going to do differently tomorrow? Um, you just got, you just got to keep doing it and keep iterating. Um, did you get your masters? And if so, when in your teaching career did you choose to do it? And what did that unlock for you?

Angie Haller: Yes, I have my master's in educational leadership. I decided to go back and get my master's probably at the worst time ever. I had three children, two of them under the age of three, and I commuted 150 miles daily to my school. And I went back for my master's. I don't regret it. It was really a hard time. It was probably about halfway through my career. So I probably had close to 10 years under my belt.

I was outside of the classroom at that time. I was working with teachers. I was an academic coach, a program improvement coordinator. And I needed that because they were essentially transitioning my position into an administration position. So I decided that I was interested. so I did get my master's and I took that position in administration for a year. It wasn't really my cup of tea. I just wasn't where my strengths lie. I missed the classroom and I ended up going back to the classroom.

However, I still don't regret getting that master's because it's open doors like this opportunity, teaching for Moreland that I wouldn't have had and I absolutely love doing. I think that not only did it give me so much experience and knowledge just in workings of schools that I didn't have, looking at the financial aspects and a lot of different things that educational leadership brings to the table that I wasn't aware of. So I have that knowledge, but more so than that, it kind of opened the door for me to do what I'm doing now, you know, working with teachers at a higher level, which I love.

Spencer Payne: And with all the teachers that you are able to work with, do you have any favorite examples of how any teachers are potentially approaching AI in their classroom with their students? Anybody who you've heard speak about what their approach has been and you thought, I really like what you're doing. I wish more people maybe were considered that. Anything that you're seeing in the AI world in the classroom that you really appreciate, respect, would emulate if you're back in the classroom today.

Angie Haller: Yeah, know, AI, it's like one of those hot topics right now. So we do talk about it quite a bit. I think that AI, a lot of the teachers that I work with use AI for really great planning purposes, like for themselves, like to plan lessons or to differentiate like the level of text in a passage, which I love. I wished I had that tool 10 years ago. But one of the the I can't recall what what candidate shared this with me, but one of the ways that I think AI can be really leveraged in the classroom is by posing something to AI and then having your students kind of critique it, right? So like if I'm a fourth grade teacher, I could give AI our essay prompt, have AI write it, and then have my students kind of dissect it and evaluate it. I think that there's a lot of value in that because I think then we're teaching students not only that, yes, you know, we can use AI to complete these tasks.

But I think we're teaching them to really think critically. I mean, I think that's where teachers are concerned about AI is, it going to take away that critical thinking and that creativity? Whereas if we can leverage it for our use so that we can show students how to think critically about something like an essay or anything that AI has produced, I think that that has a lot of value.

Spencer Payne: Yeah. I like, I like that example of, know, instead of, write this essay kids. I caught you. You obviously use chat GPT of like, all right, well, Hey, let's use it together. And now like, let's critique. Like what about this is good. What about this is bad. What about this is not clear.

Angie Haller: Absolutely.

Spencer Payne: Let's let's run through another one. Now, same same kind of questions. And now like you're getting at the thinking aspect, which is the whole in theory, the whole point of the essay is the thinking aspect. And that's really what we're what we're after. So thank you for sharing that. What to you is the single number one best thing about this profession education, especially considering you never thought you were going to get into this. And now it's been your entire career.

Angie Haller: I like the creativity. mean, I've always said, you know, of course, you know, everyone who's a teacher likes kids. Of course, you don't get into teaching if you don't. But I like kids, but I like teaching and I like that creative element of it. I love all kinds of creative things. And I think it's because I like the process. I like, you know, being able to bring something new, you know, that maybe hasn't  come to light before and then the end product. so like whether I'm in the classroom with young students doing crazy things like I've shared, or I'm just like creating, you know, presentations for my candidates now, I think being able to be creative and try and like push my own limits and think outside of the box, like that for me is really rewarding. So I mean, obviously, like I love the fact that teaching, it makes ripples, you're making impact in so many lives.

but it also fulfills me because it fills that need that I have to just be creative and share it with others.

Spencer Payne: Maybe an answer those listening wouldn't have expected, but yes, you can be very creative when you are leading a classroom. Maybe it'd be more fun actually if you are too. On the other end of that, what's the single worst or toughest thing about this profession? Or if you could just change one thing overnight, what would you change?

Angie Haller: I think the emotional baggage that kind of comes with it. I think that for a lot of teachers, that's the hardest. When you go home at night, you're going home with all 20 of your students' concerns and problems, right? And whether or not you have that work-life balance, it's hard to eliminate that emotional baggage from your mind. And I know too, you know,  it's like this high expectation that everyone has for teachers. And that can be really hard emotionally too. I think back to when I was in the classroom right after COVID and all of these expectations for teachers, we're wearing masks and separating students and teaching online and in person at the same time.

And we're keeping seating charts and taking temperatures. there's so much emotional output there. And I think that that's the hardest thing is just finding ways to manage that because you're not just managing your own emotions, you're also trying to navigate the emotions of all of the children that you're working with. So I think that that's probably the hardest thing about it.

Spencer Payne: And to someone in their first year to add onto that for one more very quick question. How might you advise them to figure that out and or how did you manage to figure that out for yourself?

Angie Haller: don't even know that I have all the answers yet, but I can say, think being reflective, like being able to find time, like find that space to process is really important because that's part of what we struggle with is finding time for that, finding the time to like stop, reflect, really process, but also being in that situation where you can reach out to others, to other teachers.

Like I know I already said, you we talked about that at the beginning of the podcast, but having someone, whether it's, you know, just the teacher next door or whether it's, you know, your friend who's a teacher, you know, five states away, having somebody who can relate to that is really important because, you know, I know like I can come home and I can share with my husband like all of the stresses of the job, but it's different when you haven't experienced that. So having a teacher that  can also kind of relate to that. I think that that's really important because sometimes I think as teachers, we just kind of need to like drain that emotional, you know, energy. And then, you know, we can kind of start to process ourselves, but you need somebody who can kind of understand that.

Spencer Payne: Yep. And last question. Any final words of wisdom, especially as it relates to teachers out there feeling, my God, this is hard. I feel overwhelmed and building that confidence and where they might start or one thing that they might be able to put in practice or try tomorrow. Any last words of wisdom to that teacher out there who might be feeling not very confident going into tomorrow. Anything that maybe you've already said or anything new. So any newer repeated words of wisdom to that teacher who might be feeling  a little low and they could use a little boost. Any words of wisdom to that teacher as it relates to kind of building their confidence in the classroom and being able to run it well with their students and their parents and their administrators.

Angie Haller: Yeah, so this is something that I actually shared on the webinar, but early on in my career, somebody told me that you should have, you should keep for yourself a why I teach file. And for me, it's just a huge manila envelope. And I have just such a vast collection of really random things in there.

But I think that as teachers, we're all gonna go through that, right? And so having something that you can go back to and reflect on, think of these past students who impacted you or these experiences that really changed you as a teacher and being able to, again, take the time to stop and reflect on that and remember that even if things aren't okay right now  like we're gonna go in ebbs and flows. It's just kind of part of the world of teaching. But having that file to think back on, it's so powerful. So if you're a brand new teacher, start that file now. When a student writes you a note, when you get a parent email that really touches you, you get a note from your administrator commenting about something great they saw. Like save those things for yourself because it is important for you to be able to reflect on those and build yourself up as well.

Spencer Payne: Perfect. Thank you so much, Angie. We explored a bunch of ways for teachers to build confidence and things that they can potentially go put into practice even as early as next week, like co-creating the way this class is going to run with your students or using the other tools and the five rules that you shared. We've got finding something positive about the students in class and sending that proactively to the students before any negative news happens first.

And that file  of why you're a teacher in the first place with backup examples of the positive so that you can remember those on some of those tough days. So, a bunch of actionable advice in here that folks can potentially go put in practice today, tomorrow, next week on their quest to go build that confidence and be the best teacher they can be. So, Angie, thank you so much with this phenomenal examples of a real educator out there sharing real world stories. Appreciate you so much.

Angie Haller: Thanks so much, Spencer.