Creating Meaningful Relationships with Amanda Heilman

Please note, this transcript is generated by AI and may include some errors. 

Spencer Payne: Okay, here we are with front of the class real stories from real educators and our real educator today is Amanda Heilman and Amanda, can you introduce yourself as if you would to other educators with things like what do you teach? Where do you teach? How long you've been doing it? Maybe a fun fact or two, however, you'd like to introduce yourself. Can you take it away for other educators of help us understand what it is you do and where you do it?

Amanda Heilman: Yeah, so I teach in Gardner, Kansas, which is a pretty rural, I mean, rural to the Kansas City metro area, essentially like 45 minutes from Kansas City. And I teach fourth grade. This is my eighth year teaching fourth grade and my 13th year overall. I taught for five years on a military post up in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. That was my first district right out of college and I did sixth grade in an elementary school there and then that was too old so I went down to second grade and did that for three years and felt like that was too young so then I got the job offer here in Gardner for fourth grade and it's just been like the perfect in between the two so I've loved it and and have been with this grade level since 2018 so.

Spencer Payne: Perfect. I'm going to go into the comparison between where you are now and the kind of working on the base separately. But first, what got you into this profession in the first place? How did you end up choosing education? How did you end up choosing that first job as a teacher?

Amanda Heilman: You know, it kind of sounds cliche, but I just always wanted to be a teacher when I was a kid. I very much admired my teachers. I was probably the student that was, you know, a little bit of a teacher's pet. kind of just really looked up to that profession. I think for probably different reasons as a kid, I just like, you know, wonder grade papers and things like that that I thought was fun. It's not.

And yeah, it just never like I think in high school, I kind of explored some other career interests as far as like taking some classes to do some on the job training opportunities and nothing really felt right or like a natural calling, I guess. And so, yeah, I just I pursued the degree in college. I wanted to be influential to to kids in the way that a lot of my teachers were influential for me and I wanted to make an impact and just felt like that's what always felt right to me was going into teaching.

Spencer Payne: On that note, any teachers that in particularly stuck out to you when you were younger, who you maybe want to give a little shout out to who helped inspire you or who maybe you helped you try to model yourself after anybody stand out.

Amanda Heilman: Yeah, you know, I had a teacher in sixth grade, Susan Lamb, and her and I are still very much in touch. We talk actually pretty frequently. She left teaching several years ago, but she is a friend of mine now. And I just really, she was kind of this dry humor, a little bit more strict teacher, but there was something about her that I just loved, I remember thinking she was funny, but she didn't like, you know, she kind of had that dry humor. She didn't really try to be, she wasn't over the top. just, I don't know. So I really, I kind of feel like maybe that's sort of what I emulate a little bit, kind of that sarcasm. And I think that's why I've enjoyed fourth grade too, is they can kind of, you know, they pick up on that. And so yeah, she is somebody that I definitely looked up to still do and still talk to you very regularly.

Spencer Payne: Awesome. Thank you. And this concept of kind of teaching at the base, like at the base, that's the first time this has come up on this podcast. So for those who maybe are unfamiliar with it, that looks like, can you just set the stage a little bit of what does it, how does that school different from a typical public school? Maybe, maybe paint the picture of like, as you walk into your class, what do you see? What's the makeup of the students?

How big is the class in terms of number of students? Can you just paint us a little bit of a picture of what that school is like, compare, contrast? What's the same? Maybe almost all. And what's different compared to say where you're teaching right now?

Amanda Heilman: Yeah, so the base was actually considered a public school in terms of, know, state funded and all that. But in Fort Leavenworth, there is a college or a military college on base. And so a lot of our students were there pretty temporarily as their parents who were in the military were taking courses at that college. And so we had a lot of turnover, obviously. It was very rare that students were there for more than a couple of years. Usually by the third year, they were moved to another location. so just lots of turnover. And we would have staff members that were spouses of people, their husbands, or were in the military.

And so then there was a lot of turnover staff-wise too, because if you're only there for a couple of years then you're constantly having different team members and things. Class sizes were pretty similar to what I have now. I would say probably 20 to 24 kids or whatever. But lots of various nationalities and students from all over the world came to our base because their parents were taking courses. So I think over my five years there, I had like 11 kids from 11 different countries just throughout classes that I had, the Netherlands and Japan and so lots of ESL. But other than that, I mean, it was your typical, you know, kids are kids and some of them did kind of have that which you would probably assume maybe more rigid, strict military lifestyle, but then you had your kids that, you know, maybe wasn't the case. 

Spencer Payne: Yep. wow.

Amanda Heilman: I think expectations were higher on the parents' ends, at least at that time. I was there from 2013 to 2018. And a lot of things have changed just even since then, as far as like kids, know, the devices and the things that they have wasn't really as prominent then. But yeah, just I think high expectations. Most parents were very receptive to you know, any behaviors or academic needs or anything like that. But generally, it wasn't all that different other than a huge turnover rate. So.

Spencer Payne: Yeah. Yeah. and now eight years at this current school, fourth grade, your people, what, what, if anything, are you looking forward to after you've been in this profession now for over a decade, help paint us a picture of, you know, we're relatively early into this current year's school year. Is there anything in particular you're looking forward to this year? Something new you want to try? some  experimenting with AI, whatever it is, like, is there anything you're looking forward to or attempting this year that's new, fun, different, challenging in some way?

I like to ask that question because sometimes people teach it for 10 years, they're still, I'm going to try something new this year, I'm gonna try something new this year, like it's never the same. So I'm curious how to explore that with you of what what if anything, are you looking forward to this particular year, something new, interesting, fun that you might be trying to

Amanda Heilman: Yeah. Well, you mentioned AI. That is something that has really kind of captivated me in the last year for sure. I've taken the last couple of years, I've had some student teachers and I've taken some courses to just get some more college credit hours and things like that. And this is the first year that in like three school years that I don't have a student teacher and I'm not taking any classes.

So just in general, I don't have as much on my plate this year. I can just solely focus on what I need to teach and what I need to prepare. And so I took a class last year that was on AI and just got to kind of experiment a little bit with what is really so accessible to me as an educator.

Spencer Payne: And curious to explore with that course and what you're hoping to do. Is it more on the administrative side, how to help you? Is it more in the classroom side, how the students can use it and how to use it that way? Like what's the scope of kind of the class you took and how you're hoping to experiment this year?

Amanda Heilman: It was more like just on the instructor side as a teacher just writing lessons. It will write lesson plans for you. It will come up with, I am not somebody that I would consider very creative. I feel like there have been years in my career where I've been like, man, I don't know if I can be a really good teacher if I'm not super over the top creative but I can execute like you tell me what you know if I find ideas and whatnot I can execute. And so I experimented a lot in that class with chat GPT and I've discovered magic school and that's an AI tool for specifically for teachers. And so just telling it to you know if there's a lesson that I have struggled with in the past like man every year like this historically is always terrible. The kids don't get it. It's hard. have not found a better way to teach it. And just using AI to try to kind of finite or, you know, come up with better ideas or new ideas and

Spencer Payne: And is there a specific example? Is there one in particular that you used last year or you're looking up this year? I'd to get in the weeds here of this one for a little bit, if you don't mind, of like, what's that subject that you're like, I never really nailed this, I'm not really great at this one. What's something that you're actively like used it or are hoping to use it for this coming year to help you out?

Amanda Heilman: So I love math. I have a seventh, eighth grade endorsement in math. I enjoy teaching math. But there is a lesson in our curriculum, which is very old anyway. And we're likely getting new curriculum next year. where the kids are kids who are fractions is already hard. It's hard. It's just hard. It's hard for all of them. And they come in with a little bit of basic understanding of frown fractions in fourth grade, but there is a lesson in our curriculum where they have to plot various fractions on a number line, think like a ruler or something, and line up like equivalent fractions, one fourth, know, two eighths, that kind of thing.

And it is just like, every year I teach that lesson and we kind of go off of what the, you know, the curriculum wants us to do, but then like, essentially you get to this independent practice and they're just like I don't get you know, they're all like what and it's like, okay, how can I like you know What do I need to do to just make it more? Because there have been over my 13 years there have been Times when you know year after year. It's like man This is just a really hard skill and then you either find something or somebody gives you an idea and all of a sudden it's just like this is so much easier. They get it so much more than how I was doing it before or.

Spencer Payne: Yeah. So yeah. And what you're trying to accomplish there is like, this is, this is typically a tricky thing for the students to grasp. takes longer. No matter every year you're like, that's right. It's going to take longer than I remember. And I think for them to get this and it still takes longer than even you remember. And so you're trying to shorten that time, right? Of, it's going to click at some point, right? But you're just trying to shorten that time of confusion to when it actually clicks by, by maybe teaching it in a new way.

Amanda Heilman: Yeah. And it's always like, yeah.

Spencer Payne: And is that something that you experimented with last year? Or is that something that's coming up this year that we might need to follow up and ask, how did your new magic school work? All right.

Amanda Heilman: Yeah, coming up in the spring. So I did ask chat GPT because one of my, and I honestly am trying to remember what it even said, but one of my assignments that I had to do was to like, you know, put in and I just, it was amazing how like, I just said, you know, write a lesson plan for fourth grade students where they map equivalent fractions on a number line or something like that. And it gave me a lot of lot of ideas. So I having already like taught that when I did that class, that was just the one that came to my mind. And so coming this spring, I would hope to use AI to help me just come up with even if it's just more like hands on and like the kids are, you know, moving to certain I don't know, I just need something that's more engaging in the curriculum, you know, and that they'll get a little bit better. Yeah. Check in in like March and I'll let you know.

Spencer Payne: More to come on that one as you test that out here in the spring. And again, we're early in this new school year. I am curious to explore kind of how you approach certain aspects of the new school year. Specifically, how do you approach kind of setting the expectations for not just your students, but also maybe with their parents in that first meeting that you get to have with them? How do you go about kind of getting on the same page  with the students and the, and their parents, setting the expectations, what you expect of them maybe, and what they should expect of you? How do you go about doing that?

Like, is there anything that you've kind of workshopped over the last 10 plus years in education that, seems to work for you in that?

Amanda Heilman: I think with parents, know, at the beginning of the year, we do like back to school night. we actually last year to increase attendance at back to school night, we combined it with our meet the teacher night. So typically you have a night where you drop off supplies and you meet your teacher. Well, that night always had a lot of people show up because they want to see their teacher. They want to well. And then we'd have lower attendance at back to school night. And you're like, I need them to hear this information.

So we combined those nights and that has shown to be successful in getting a lot more people there. And so at that Meet the Teacher night, I do a little presentation, all of us do, for the parents on just, yeah, how we run our classroom, how fourth grade works, how our school works, especially if they're new. And just kind of like, I think the biggest thing with parents, and I look back on like my first couple years, knowing how you like what you expect from students and just being really confident in that because if they sense that you're kind of, you know, trying to just please them or whatever. mean, I feel like they'll kind of walk all over you sometimes, but I just am very confident in like what we expect of kids and we let them know at the beginning of the year in that presentation. And then with students, we practice.

Spencer Payne: And any specific examples that you share, like what do you say to the parents? Like what are the top one or two or three things that you say of what you expect from the kids? What do you share?

Amanda Heilman: Well, actually, you this year I added something in because I was just like, this is becoming a problem. Kids with, you know, we have a lot of fourth graders have cell phones and they, we had, we have the last couple of years really had a lot of problems with kids either coming to school, just really tired because they were on their phone all night, nobody monitoring them. We've had issues with kids sending things back and forth to each other inappropriately at night.

And so I just put, I put like a little blurb in my beginning of the year stuff this year that just said, we have like, I have a slide that talks about like what you can do to help your child in the classroom and also at home. And at my at home part, I just mentioned like having your child, if they have a cell phone, plugging their phone in your room at night and not having access to it, making sure they get enough sleep and are eating right. Because those are all things that really affect their ability to perform in the classroom. And then as far as just, I don't know, like other assignments and things like that, I kind of let them know just, we actually don't do homework in fourth grade here. A lot of our grade levels don't. The research has just shown that it's not very effective in helping kids succeed.

So things like playing outside and having dinner with their families are much more advantageous for them. So we I talk about that. And parents are usually like when you say we don't do homework because we want you to have dinner together and play outside. They're always like, oh, thank goodness. You know, I guess I don't want to like have to sit down with them to do homework at night when they've been in school all day. So those are some of the things that just at home we try to really encourage.

And I just am a big communicator and I let parents know at the beginning, if there, if something happens at school that your child is involved in and I feel like you're gonna, you need to know, I will call you or I will email you and ask you a good time to call so I don't interrupt you in the middle of the workday or whatever. But yeah, I just try to be really kind of like you and I are talking right now. I just talk to parents like, you know we're in this together and my job is to teach and your job is to, you know, have my back too because we're a team. so, yeah, and then with our kids at the beginning of the year, we just practice a lot of expectations like, like you would a sport, we just practice, practice, practice until we have it down.

Spencer Payne: Yeah, perfect.

And does your school, have you experimented with a no phones rule in the classroom? Have you tried that? like that's something I've recently heard. Many people say like, my school finally did this and it's so much better. There's no phones in class. Everyone puts them away before they walk in. do you, do you do that in your class in your school?

Amanda Heilman: Yeah, so yeah, our entire district actually last year implemented a no phone policy. Yeah, last school year. So now we've done a whole school year of it. Yeah.

Spencer Payne: Okay. So last year is when you first implemented it. Like what's, what are the, yeah, yeah. Okay. And what, like what results did you teachers, students feel last year has the first year of no phones in class versus say the one, two, three years prior, was it better, worse, the same? Like what's your reaction to the no phones rule?

Amanda Heilman: You know, if you asked a high school teacher, I'm sure they would have a completely different answer because I know those kids were used to having their headphones in, listening to their music while they're working on stuff. It's just like not even a world I know anything about because that was never what we had access to. But I know that the older kids, there were actually a lot of families and parents that were really riled up about it because they're like, I need my kid to be able to call me if they're sick and da da da. And it's like

Okay, well we have a school nurse, we have a process for that. I'm sure there were some elementary kids, but our rule at the elementary level has always been you do not need a cell phone out. I've never allowed it out even at dismissal or anything. Definitely not in the classroom. It was always supposed to be in their backpack, in their locker. You don't get it out until you leave the building. So to be honest, at the elementary level, it did not really change a whole lot other than we kind of had more of a, instead of it just being like my own rule.

Spencer Payne: We have phones, yeah. Yeah.

Amanda Heilman: This is a district policy because they're actually not supposed to have smartwatches either. That was probably the bigger, the bigger issue we saw at the elementary level is we had some kids that are used to wearing a smartwatch and we even had some issues the year before this was implemented of kids like texting their parents from like recess or something like that about, and then the teacher gets in from recess and they already have an email from the parent about something that they didn't even, it just was kind of, it's like a, deep hole that you get into when they can just. So implementing the watches was a little bit more at the elementary level. I guess maybe some problems that we saw, but not too many. I think the middle school and high school level have seen more of a difference. And they can have them in like passing period. And I think at lunch maybe, but they're not supposed to have them. they have to like check them into the teacher when they go to class.

Spencer Payne: Yeah, yeah, got it. And with that, that's kind of early in the year, some new rule changes that seem to be helpful. Now at the end of a school year, like that was only a couple months ago, how do you as you know, maybe there's some some standards that you have to meet. Maybe there's some I don't know, I don't know what the fourth grade test scores might look like. But maybe just you personally, how do you kind of assess your performance as a teacher for that year? Like, what are the things that you look for to say like? I was really good this year because of this, this or this, or I was just okay, I'm going to work on this next year.

How do you assess your own? Did I make a difference? Did I do my job well this year? How do you assess that for yourself at the end of the year?

Amanda Heilman: I think I kind of step back and think about the relationships that I have with the kids that were in my class. If I were not to be able to say that I really made a connection or built a relationship with anybody, would be pretty bad. Because that's always the goal. Kids work better for people they have a good relationship with. Having those connections with them is so important.

I think just honestly at the end of the year, our fourth graders, they're the oldest in our elementary school. And so we do like a big fourth grade walk at the end of the year where they walk the halls for the last time. And then when we get outside, all of their parents are out there and we kind of congregate and just that's really where they say, goodbye, have a great summer. Like that's on the last day of school. And there have been years where that's kind of a really emotional time because you have these kids that you've been with really every day since August and you've gotten to see their growth and you've built relationships with their parents over academics, behavior, or just in general. And I've had parents come up to me on that in tears, thank you so much, da, da, da. I think for me, just that feeling on the last day of like, OK, yeah.

I know how hard this kid worked and I know how far this kid has come. And I just really am gonna miss these relationships and these parents and I think just that overall last day feeling. It's either kind of like, you know, cause you have those years that are a lot harder and I think it comes down to relationships because even if they're a tough kid, If I have a really good relationship with them and with their parents, it really kind of trumps any feelings of just like, I could have done better. If I had a good relationship with my class and my kids, feel like that's kind of a true test of how I did.

Spencer Payne: on that note, any proudest moments come to mind? Anything that, that, after again, 10 plus years teaching anything that really strikes you that is, you know, maybe still makes you laugh or still makes you tear up a little bit. Cause it was just such an incredible moment or the amount of progress that one student made that one year, like any, any proudest moments rise to the top for you that you're able to share.

Amanda Heilman: You know, I had a little girl a couple years ago that was, she was really timid and just really shy. And I remember her mom talking to me at the beginning of the year of like, just she's so sweet, but she just, she is really shy and just know that like, she's gonna take some warming up too. And her and I just had a really good relationship and kind of going back to that like sarcastic dry sense of humor kind of personality that I can tend to have. feel like her and I kind of connected on that. And I remember her mom coming up to me on the last day and just crying and like, thank you so much. You were so good for her. and she, she just loved fourth grade because of you. And that was, that was really like, I mean, I remember that. And I remember the parents who come up to me after the fourth grade walk and just very heartfelt thank yous.

And so those are really the ones that kind of stick out. And they go across the street to the middle school and they're done. And I've had some kids too that were tough. And we did a lot of interventions and trying to get some things in place for them. And then I find out when they go over there, they're doing so well. And I know that that, a lot of that stems from what my school, like what we did to try to help them. that's always just in general. think proudest moments as a teacher is always when you find out that those kids that you connected with or that you worried about are doing well and are being successful. And yeah.

Spencer Payne: Yeah. That's what it's all about. And on the other end of that, um, you know, it's not always proudest moments. There's some, there's some tough days, tough weeks, tough years, sometimes. Um, can you share anything about, you know, tough times when you're just like, Oh my gosh, am I making a difference? I'm drowning. Like, am I, am I going to be good at this? I'll maybe it's early in your career, maybe recent, whatever it may be. Um, and you share any of those examples of, know, this is a tough, tough day, tough week, tough time. Um, and then how do you bounce back?

How do you still show up? Positive attitude, you gotta be on in front of those kids every day, parents, et cetera. So any particularly tough times, what drove that? And how do you bounce back and still go put on that smiley face and try to go make a difference in spite of maybe not feeling your best?

Amanda Heilman: Well, I think that anybody who has been teaching in the last five years would say that COVID was definitely a very tough time and specifically the 2021 school year was really challenging. I had my first daughter in May of 2020 and so I was on maternity leave at the beginning, come back in November and you know it's like everybody's masked and we were supposed to be social distancing in elementary classrooms. They were doing specials in the classroom. They were doing lunch in the classroom. Our kids never really got to be away from each other. And we barely got a break, you know? And on top of that, everybody in society is like bickering about the masks and COVID and all the, it just was a real, and I had a newborn.

It was just a really a tough time and I think that I could I could rattle on forever about the tough students I've had, the tough parents I've had or whatever, but I think that when it's really hard the the best thing that you can do is is work together as a team. My actual grade level team are just the closest people to me in my life. just  I have worked together for a long time and are so close. And I think the phrase, you have to laugh to keep from crying a lot of times, that is what we do. We just have a lot of fun together. And when we have a really tough kid or it's a really tough year, we just stick together. mean, you cannot just close your door and...

pull yourself up and do this, especially during really challenging times by yourself, because you need ideas from other people. You need to tap out. Our counselor, our principal has always been really good about saying, hey, we are all human. When you need a break, text me. I will come cover your class so you can just go take a break. And I have had to do that before. And not everybody is lucky enough to work in a building like that. I understand that completely. But we are very fortunate to that our counselor and our principal have really put teacher mental health as a priority and will come cover our class in a heartbeat if we just need to take a break or if we've been trying to process with a student for a while and we are just hitting that I'm flipping my lid point like

Spencer Payne: On that, on that note, would you, would you mind sharing just briefly, uh, like what, what's a moment where you had to pull that rip cord and just say like, yeah, I, I, you know, that, that break offer you've been offering for awhile. I need you for this day or this 10 minutes or 30 minutes. Like, uh, maybe you don't have to share what happened, but like, oftentimes people offer things.

Yeah, sure. The pool is always open, whatever it is. And we're like, are they really mean it? Right? Like, and so sometimes that that that first leap to actually take someone up on this offer that they've been giving is sometimes hard. So can you share a little bit about maybe like taking her up on that offer? And again, was it for 10 minutes? Was it for a day? Was it for an hour? And like, how did you feel asking for it? Like, and how'd you feel afterwards?

Was it like, my gosh, thank you. I needed that third. That's all I needed was 30 minutes. Can you share a little bit more about about kind of that? That  example for a minute or two of again, what'd you ask for? How'd you feel asking for it? And how'd you feel afterwards?

Amanda Heilman: Yeah, you know, this is something that like our counselor and our principal have always talked a lot about to us as a staff. So I know that they mean it when they say it. There have just been some times maybe with a particular student who was refused not being compliant or was just being maybe it's like the middle of the day and this has already been going on for a while. I know for myself when I start feeling like I'm either about to start crying.

Which doesn't happen with kids necessarily, but you know, sometimes with a staff member or whatever, I don't know. If I feel myself starting to get emotional or like just with a really tough kid, if I just feel like I, I mean, we all know when we're about to just be like, I'm going to say or do something that I'm going to regret and I need to walk away. Obviously I can't walk away from this classroom and leave you all by yourself. So I will a lot of not.

Spencer Payne: that I don't want to see that, yeah.

Amanda Heilman: But I guess in the times that I have tapped out, I will walk away from that student and I will just text our counselor or I've gone over to my team member's room and said, I need a break. Can I switch you for like 15 minutes? he's, yep, got it. And like, if I text our counselor and she is available and I say, just, I am dealing with so and so and we are getting nowhere. just, need a break. She will, yep, I'll be down there as soon as I can, you know, whatever. And when she comes, it's always like, take your time. And obviously I'm not going to take advantage of that. So if I can go for a walk and, go to the bathroom and cry if I need to or whatever, and get myself together, then come back. And I just feel better.

Sometimes we just need to be able to like take a breath and think without feeling like in that moment with that student that we have to have a response or the perfect consequence or the perfect whatever. Sometimes we just need to clear our head. And it's a lot harder to do that when you have 20 other kids like all needing you in that moment. sometimes you just need to walk away. Yeah.

Spencer Payne: Yeah. And sometimes that can be forget.

Yeah. And like you said, sometimes that can be, that can be five minutes. Sometimes it can be 10 minutes. So like you said earlier, your fellow fourth grade teachers kind of have this community of support. and if, know, someone, like I said, isn't maybe lucky enough to have that, that kind of leader person who's also offering this that, that is, for teachers out there, I mean, if you have your one person who is down the hall and you could probably create a situation like this with each other of like, call it, I don't know, making this up, call it the five minute buddy break, right? Of like, when you, when it's really just tough and you need that five minutes, probably go kind of create a community and kind of create that for yourself. Cause sometimes that's, that's all it takes. Yeah. I got, I got a three year old and a one year old. And yeah, sometimes you're just like, I need two minutes to just go outside. I need to just calm myself down for a second.

Amanda Heilman: Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes you just have tap out with your spouse. It's like, I need to tap out. I'm about to. And so, yeah. And I'm very fortunate that right down the hall from me too is our interventionist who obviously she has groups, but not at all times. And so sometimes if I know she's in there and I'll just go grab her or whatever. And my grade has always been really good about splitting our kids too. I mean, we split them in half with the other two classes. It doesn't add really that much more. So sometimes like, you know, my colleague has my team member, she, I remember last year, she, she just had a really rough morning at home. Like we all do at times. And she came to school and she was not ready to just start teaching. Like she was emotional.

And we said, we got your kids, just go sit in your car for a little bit. Go take a break. And we just split them. And we're all teaching the same thing anyway. So yeah, it helps to know that you have that to fall back on if you're having a really rough day.

Spencer Payne: For sure, for sure. On a more fun, positive note, all right. Let's talk over 10 years in the classroom, anything strike you as funniest, wildest, craziest, I can't believe that actually happened today, moments? Anything that you're able to share, maybe no names, all that kind of good stuff. Does anything strike you over all that time in the classroom with anything on any of those notes? Funny stuff that can't, say the darndest things, wildest stuff in the classroom. Maybe it's a crazy show and tell day. Anything strike you that you're able to share of just kind of a, can't believe that actually happened today moments in the classroom.

Amanda Heilman: Yeah, well actually my very first year teaching, we were like, I don't know, people kind of noticed that the school smelled like maybe a skunk had gotten into like the like that there was an animal in the vents or something was kind of releasing a smell throughout the the hallways. And as the day went on, other teachers were like walking by my classroom and saying, you know, it smells like the strongest in your room. But I didn't know because I'd been in my room. you know, yeah. And so I hadn't compared it to anything. And so I just remember like people walking by and being like, it smells worse here. Your room is so then my team and I at the time were like, OK, what like where is it coming from? And so we spent I think we spent our lunchtime while the kids were at lunch just searching through like lockers trying to figure out.

Spencer Payne: Cause you were in the room. Yeah. You're used to it. Yeah.

Amanda Heilman: what was going on. think I discovered something in my classroom that smelled pretty strong that linked me to a student. And I went and checked his locker and we opened the door and it was like, my gosh, his backpack had been like freshly sprayed by a skunk. And he smelled so much like a skunk that everywhere he was walking around the school for specials and lunch and all that.

Was the smell was following him, which is why everybody in the school thought that the school smelled like a skunk, but it was strongest in my room. And his mom, mean, and I can say this because he like this was 13 years ago. He's probably 25 now because we were in sixth grade at the time. His mom was kind of not all there. And we were like, how did she drop him off this morning at school with a backpack? It turned out that a skunk had gotten into their basement or something and sprayed his backpack.

Spencer Payne: And not notice, yeah.

Amanda Heilman: And it was just wild that she didn't even notice. He didn't really notice. And we got him a new backpack, which, of course, I think he was embarrassed, obviously, by that. But it was also kind of like, you need a different backpack. You can't bring this to school. Yeah. But my classroom had this very underlying skunk smell for probably two weeks. And I just had a headache every single day.

Spencer Payne: Gosh. Yeah, but like we can't do this again. We like we can't do this again tomorrow.

Amanda Heilman: And I just remember, I remember that. I know when I told my team that story one time, my team member, he always remembers another class that he had before I was here that a student came to school with like a dead squirrel in their backpack or something like that. And they found it. So anyway, kids just, yeah, they are not always aware.

And at that time, was just like, man. Yeah, I still remember just like walking by him in the classroom to like check on, know, and it just just radiated off of him.

Spencer Payne: the day of the freshly skunked backpack. Well, a couple more quick hitter questions as we kind of wrap up here. First, I'm curious what, and maybe you're working with, actually, you got a curiosity. Are you working with any new teachers this year in your school? Maybe it's their first year.

Amanda Heilman: Yes. There is one in third grade and she student taught with me last year. She went into teaching a little later in life. So she's got four kids and I had two of them. And so yeah, she is a first year teacher, but she subbed in our building for many years. And so this is by no means like her first, you know, but yes.

Spencer Payne: But still, if I remember the sub, was like, you know, hey, we're watching a movie today, kid. It's a little different when you're, than when you're live, like for it all day, every day. So curious, like what, what, if any advice do you give her as a first year full-time teacher, to share kind of the wisdom of some of what you have learned over the time that you've spent in the classroom? what's, what's, what any, any, any number one piece of wisdom that, you would give to her as a new teacher or anybody else listening who might be in the beginning of their very first year.

Amanda Heilman: Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, I think, you know, you don't have to come like right out of the gate doing everything, doing all of the best things and grading every single thing that they do. And I mean, there are so many things that you you talk about at PD. It's very overwhelming. you know, kids should have this many positives to negatives, and you need to give this kind of feedback and da da da. And like it just can get so overwhelming to try to balance all the things that make a good teacher. And I think the most important thing is to focus on, you know, what is it that I need them to learn? And what kind of, how can I make connections and relationships with students along the way so that they're engaged? But I do not need to every single thing we do. We can do things together as a class to to alleviate my grading. Maybe my seasoned co-worker does all these amazing things because she's done it for a long time. You don't have to do all of them.

It's okay to say that is a great idea and I am going to try next year to you know, do that. But right now I just need to I feel like I can't get my head above water. So I need to find the areas that I can. And yeah, I think that and just being willing to like ask for help if you have either a particular student you're struggling with or just a routine that you're like, I cannot we are not doing this efficiently. How do you do it?

Like I think some of my best things that I do, just got from, you like you just, you watch other people do things, you're like, that's really smart. I'm going to do that. Yeah. So I think just leaning on people, but not feeling like you have to do it all. Find the things that are the most important, find the things that obviously the district says you have to do this and, and you have to teach these things, but it doesn't have to be the most amazing over the top. And it's okay to throw some things away.

Spencer Payne: Yeah, I'm just gonna steal that tomorrow. Yeah.

Amanda Heilman: It's okay to throw an assignment away every now and then. It's fine.

Spencer Payne: Yes, yes, yes.

Yep. What to you is the single best thing about this profession? Education.

Amanda Heilman: You know, I really, I love being able to look back on a school year and see the growth that my kids make, whether it be academically or just maturity. And so, and just kind of being able to like tangibly, if you're not a classroom teacher, you don't always get to see all of that growth. So I think that is really, I feel like my job is very impactful. If I sat behind a desk all day doing spreadsheets, I don't feel like I'm necessarily making the kind of impact that I can be proud of. But I would also be lying if I did not say that the schedule is great. I love, especially as a mom, having my summers off with my kids. I love having two weeks at Christmas time and a week in March and November to like just re-like restart and refresh and relax and that's important for all of us to find time to do that and so to have that built in to my schedule is is great so.

Spencer Payne: And on the other end, what's the single worst or hardest thing about this profession? Or if you could just change one thing overnight, fixed, what would you fix?

Amanda Heilman: I, especially as technology has gotten more just prevalent, I think that the hardest thing for us as teachers is that we cannot control what goes on at home. We don't have any say in screen time, lack of boundaries, just whatever is witnessed at home or okay at home or, you know, allowed.

I think a lot of behavior and academic gaps stem from just home life. And the biggest challenges that I feel like we have are the times that I'm just like, man, this is so hard, is when you just cannot, you're like, I don't agree with what they have access to and what they are allowed to do or whatever.

You can't control it. You can only do what you can do here and that's it.

Spencer Payne: Yeah. Understandable. Did you pursue your masters? And if so, when in your teaching journey, why that time? What did that unlock for you? And if not, why not?

Amanda Heilman: I do have a master's. It's in instructional technology. I got it in 2017, so I've had it for a while. And to be honest, in teaching, if you don't pursue a master's degree, a lot of districts, you cap out of the salary after 10, 12 years. I could be capped out already if I didn't have one. It lowers the number of professional development points that you need to renew, and it pays more.

So I pursued that before I got married and had children because I knew that it would be very time consuming and I would wish that I had it. And so I did it really for that reason. And I thought, know, okay, if it opens the door someday to do something a little bit more flexible, then that's great too. But I haven't really used it for that purpose. so it just pays me a little bit more.

Spencer Payne: and less PD hours every year. We'll take that deal. And we hit on your sixth grade teacher you mentioned earlier, I think it was Mrs. Lam, but any other educators that I just want to show some love, show some appreciation to people who you think are doing it right. Any educators out there who you want to shout out who you just think are like, are your people, these are people who are doing right, they're doing a great job, they just deserve a quick little shout out. Any appreciation for any other educators, any other educators out there you just want to show a little love to.

Amanda Heilman: Yes, yeah.

Spencer Payne: and why.

Amanda Heilman: well, and I don't know if you necessarily mean like that I had or just that I, yeah, my, my team, Chris Green and Farrah Jensen, they're, they're my people and they are just like so fun to work with. And I have worked in places where I did not really enjoy going to work. Either my team was not cohesive or I had a difficult principle or whatever it may be.

Spencer Payne: people you work with, people you, you, you, yeah.

Amanda Heilman: And all around the staff at my school is amazing. I love coming to school. I look forward to it. Sometimes I even have FOMO if I have to. mean, we all like a good day off. But sometimes I'm like, you know. So I love hanging out with my team. We hang out socially, too. And so work is just part of what we do together. And they make it really fun. And I just really appreciate them because they're always, we're always there for each other to cry to and then also to just laugh with and have fun with. They, like I said, I am not the creative one. I am the planner. I get our lessons in place for the week. They are really creative. They're very kind of just like last minute and pull. let's do this. And it's just always this like great fun idea that I never would have come up with.

So I get to kind of come off as a fun teacher with my kids because they come up with these ideas and we do them together. So yeah, so my brother, his name is Austin Hershberger. He's an assistant principal and athletic director in a small district. And I know he works hard and deals with a lot of behaviors and things like that. So I know he's trying his best and yeah, just really everybody at Gardner Elementary.

Spencer Payne: There you go.

Amanda Heilman: I really appreciate and love and it's the reason I, mean, obviously the kids are why we do this, but I'd be looking elsewhere if I didn't enjoy who I work with. So.

Spencer Payne: Yeah. And just to share, share, showcase that of you, you kind of, sounds like in your career have worked at schools where you're maybe not quite on the same page. It's not quite your people. Maybe isn't this just doesn't feel like a good fit. and now it sounds like you're at a place that's a great fit. And sometimes it can be as simple as just sometimes it be as simple as just go find another fit, right? Like I know that can be hard and like, what's who, what I want to go to, what's close to me. All that. It's, it's, it's harder than I'm making it out to be. can be, but sometimes it's just.

It's kind of go find that one great fit. And all of sudden this thing that feels kind of, goes to feel fantastic just like that by just finding, finding the school district. That's, that's your people. That's your good fit. And it seems like you found it. So, awesome shout out. And last question, as we wrap up here, any last words of wisdom. So anything that we haven't had a chance to talk about that you'd like to share with other teachers.

Amanda Heilman: Yeah.

Spencer Payne: Words of wisdom, advice, whatever it may be, anything new or anything that maybe you've already shared that's so important. You just want to talk about it one more time. So any new or repeated final words of wisdom.

Amanda Heilman: The skunk. You know, I think that this is a job that can easily become very overwhelming. It's very easy for teachers to just pack everything up and take it home and spend the evening doing things, spend all weekend working on stuff. And call it being in the same grade level for several years, call it being with a team that we've become like a well-oiled machine, I don't know. But once I had kids, I decided like, I work to live, I do not live to work, I don't take things home. Every now and then, if I absolutely need to, then, but I really do not take things home and I don't stay here till six o'clock.

I really prioritize my time. I'm very organized. I keep a strict to-do list. Every little thing that I don't want to forget to do, I write down. And I just really try to be with my family in the evening. And I do let parents know that at the beginning of the year too. If it's after 4.30 or I've already left for the day, you might not get an email back from me till the next day because I'm spending time with my family.

So I just think that it's really important. I think there's kind of the stigma of like, teachers, they just like take everything home and they spend all evening grading and that doesn't have to be, you can be a good teacher and not take everything home. You can be a good teacher and not be here at 6 a.m. and stay till six. I feel like I work hard and I do a good job and I don't do that. So find a way to prioritize what you need to prioritize and because that's where the burnout comes, know, too, is like, I'm here all day and then I'm taking stuff home and it's still never enough. Be okay with saying no to things if you can and find ways to delegate, you know, also among your team to lighten the load. So.

Spencer Payne: Yeah. Perfect. Appreciate that, that point of view. And another way of approaching that too is, as simple as like, as in your first year or two or three, sometimes that's when like going with the mentality of expect to push it with the expectation that you're learning how to be more efficient and when to, when to stop, but you're to go all in for a little bit so you can learn so that soon you can put those boundaries up, but you, gotta get your reps in and you gotta figure out what works for you. And then you'll get to that point where you can put those boundaries in and say like at four 30, like I'm not, probably not going to respond to your emails at this point. Um, yeah.

Amanda Heilman: Yes, and I think that's important to acknowledge too. Like as a first, second, third year teacher, you probably should be taking stuff home because it's really hard to know how to prioritize all the things if you don't know what you don't know. So you don't know how helpful or unhelpful things are gonna be. So I definitely agree that like, and I did that, I spent every Saturday at Starbucks for like six hours writing lesson plans because I had to turn them into my principal by 5 p.m. on Sunday so she could go in and live make comments on them. That was like really that was my first two years of teaching and it's stressful but then you yeah you put the work in so that years down the road you kind of know what you're doing and you can not have to do that so.

Spencer Payne: And you can exactly, exactly. Well, Amanda, thank you so much for your real stories from a real educator from hopefully this AI with fractions. This brain goes super well. and otherwise some great notes here of, you know, find your people, figure out how you can, you know, align with some of your people to take that five minute break. If that's really what you need in that particular moment. Cause sometimes that's incredibly powerful. And if there's a skunky smell, sometimes you got to check the backpack.

Amanda Heilman: Sometimes it is your classroom and not just something in the vents.

Spencer Payne: Sometimes it's your classroom and not somebody else's. So thank you so much, Amanda, for a fun session. Thank you for sharing your story. I appreciate you.

Amanda Heilman: Thank you.