Bathtubs, Books, and Building Relationships with Tammy Irminger 

Please note, this transcript is generated by AI and may include some errors. 

Spencer Payne: Okay, here we are, flowing with another episode of Front of the Class Real Stories for Real Educators. Today joined by real educator Tammy Irminger. And Tammy, can you help describe when you're introduced to other people in the educational field? How do you introduce yourself? How long have you been teaching? What are you working on today? What lights you up about this profession? Maybe a fun fact, whatever it is, how do you introduce yourself to other people in this profession?

Tammy Irminger: All right, well thanks for having me. My name is Tammy Irminger. I always teach my kids how to say my name, Ger, like a tiger. So Tammy Irminger. This is my 20th year in education. I taught 16 years in the classroom, a sprinkle of third grade, one year of sixth grade, excuse me, and then 12 years of fourth grade. And this is my fourth year as the school's librarian. I have done all but three of those years here at MacArthur Elementary at Fort Leavenworth and my husband of almost 30 years retired here after 20 years in the military. So I do say all of that all the time, but that is me.

Spencer Payne: Perfect. And how did you get into this profession in the first place? What attracted you to it?

Tammy Irminger: I think that I had, well I didn't know it at the time, but I had a very pay it forward mentality. I had kind of a rough childhood, not a lot of money coming in, lots of people coming in and out, but I had very stable educators, teachers, principals, custodians, that really, now that I look back, kind of kept an eye on me shaped my path and to be an educator, half as a nurturer and the other half as an educator.

Spencer Payne: And teaching on a military base and now being the librarian on the military base, for those who are unfamiliar with maybe what that looks like, can you paint a little picture of what is the makeup of the students that you might see on a regular daily basis?

Tammy Irminger: Yeah, they are your average children. Their parents just happen to serve in the military. Some of them also have jobs on the post. Maybe they work in the commissary or the PX, or maybe they work at the prison or various other jobs. But for the most part, this is a school for the military who are going into their major their rank of major and they take a course called CGSC, Command Sergeant Major School. And so this is just a next step in their career is to take this course. And so we educate their children if they choose to bring them. And there are three elementary schools on this military post and one junior high consisting of sixth, seventh, eighth and ninth.

Spencer Payne: And given people, assume are there for, maybe parents there for taking these courses to become a major, they're there for a relatively short time period. This might be a transient stop along the way. Can you, go ahead.

Tammy Irminger: Yes. No, yes. We see about a 50 % turnover in our students each year. Their parents are here for the CGS course, which is one year. And sometimes they stay on to the SAMS course, which would equate to a master's basically in the military world. And so after three years, then we probably don't see, you know, a vast majority of these students because they have moved on. We have some what we call permanent party students, but for the most part, there's a huge turnover. We also have a lot of international students with us, anywhere from 25 to 75 students from all over the world. And their parents are also coming to this school too. So we have a wide variety of faces.

Spencer Payne: Yeah, and guess I could see how in potentially in a world with that many people who are there for a year or maybe the kids are used to being in and out of a school for a year or two here and there. Kids from all over the country, all over international. Your background of having school kind of be a safe, energizing place that you wanted to go to could potentially be a very important trait for kids who are facing moving around schools every year, every other year. How, out of curiosity, how has your background, like what do you bring differently to the table as an educator, given your background, especially given the background of your students who might need that extra touch? Cause I don't know, I know why.

Like I went to the same school. I was around the same kids all the time. I couldn't imagine bouncing back and forth every single year, every other year, et cetera. So can you help us understand a little bit of like, does your background help shape how you approach kind of creating a place for these kids who bounce around a lot? And for good reason, their parents are, know, advancing in life, et cetera. Like how has that helped you become a great educator for these kids who are kind of, might only see it for a year?

Tammy Irminger: Yeah, relationships and connections are very vital. Obviously, we're in the business of educating, but we are also in the business of making connections, building relationships. They have to trust us, they have to feel comfortable, they have to feel safe before they'll let us fill their heads with knowledge. So they're not going to give us anything unless we build that trust, build that relationship.

It's funny, this year our theme is connect and it could not be more relevant than this location because relationships are just so important. So I feel like with my background and needing that continuity and those relationships, I feel like that's what you have to establish first. So I try to do that in addition to teaching content.

Spencer Payne: Yeah, what are some things that you all do at that school maybe to proactively kind of foster that? And I asked also with the context of, got a little three year old and he just went from his second grade kind of little daycare Montessori class to his third year. And now he's the youngest kid and there were eight kids and now there's like 20 kids. And the first couple of weeks he was like, do I have to go to this new class? Like he was like, it was just so different and it was all new people. Right. And so he wasn't feeling I mean, he wasn't feeling it his best, right? He was a lot to take in. And so I'd imagine with these kids you have too, right? Like it's a lot to take in. might be a new school. They may have never been in Kansas before. They might know they're only to be there for a year. So I'm curious, how do you specifically, and maybe this school in particular, foster that kind of connection upfront to kind of get past those barriers that might be up there for kids?

Tammy Irminger: Right. It is.

Yeah, we really try to have a family environment. We create family environments in our classrooms. We also make connections with buddies, let's say kindergarteners, classes and fifth grade classes. You we'd like to partner them up and because we're here for such a short time, they may be away from their families, whether they're international or they live in Georgia and they are here now building that family connection, that community, I think is where it starts. And so then when you do have a student that comes to a new place and sees all these new spaces, having them talk about their families and allowing their uniqueness to shine through, but also that they are a part of this little temporary family also.

My daughter, in fact, she swears she's from Georgia, even though she was not born there, she spent five years there and she still considers herself a Georgian because of the relationships that she built there. And she's 25 now. So I think success is when they do feel like they are a part of this mini family, even if it's just for a year or two.

Spencer Payne: And you've been in this educational world for quite a while. Is there anything in particular you're looking forward to over the next three, six months, maybe this school year? I guess the point here is like, hey, what can still light you up or what can you still be looking forward to to try something new or new relationships to build or whatever it is, even after you've been in this profession for a while, what still is there to look forward to? What lights you up about, again, you pick your timeframe next month, two, three, six, whatever it may be.

Tammy Irminger: Well, I think with the temperatures, everybody's feeling the drag of winter coming, taking a break, but that's not very good answer. I think that because I switched gears, I switched roles, this is my fourth year in the library, I think that literacy still lights me up and finding books for students who are reluctant readers or maybe it's that international student that I just saw walking around the library for several minutes not knowing what they wanted to check out, maybe looking deep within me to find books that they are interested in. And so my challenge is always to find students who may not necessarily like to read because that's my passion and for them to be my challenge. I've got your number. I'm gonna find a book for you.

Spencer Payne: Well, on that note, I'm curious, what if any, maybe from now to like pre-COVID, what are you seeing in terms of trends in terms of your elementary school age kids and the ability to read, desire to read, et cetera? Like, what are you seeing?

Tammy Irminger: Well, unfortunately, we see a little bit of a decline in their ability to have stamina when it comes to reading. Maybe they are spending a lot more time on screens, watching YouTube videos that are very short. So their attention span, I have noticed, is much shorter. So anything short of flashing lights or spinning plates, I think we struggle to...keep their attention. So that's always a challenge too, whether you're in the classroom, in the library, in the gym, you know, in the music and art rooms, finding their attention and keeping it is definitely more so of a challenge now.

Spencer Payne: And anything that you were in school is, and I realized sometimes you can't do all this at school. Sometimes then they go home and they're full of flashing lights. And so it's like, you're struggling to kind of combat that. But like, yeah, anything that you were in school was trying to do new, interesting novel approaches, something at all to try to help combat some of that or help improve reading comprehension, scores, stamina, those things that you mentioned.

Tammy Irminger: Well, would say graphic novels were kind of the bane of my existence when I was a classroom teacher. I never quite grasped the pull of those or the high reading levels that they have. And so when I moved over to the library and did my library science endorsement and really found out that graphic novels are such a great tool for those students who struggle with reading, they struggle with attention, they have very high vocabulary, they have very short text, but eye-catching pictures, and they even help our internationals because they can follow along. So I would say anything like that that's very relevant in what they're watching on TV or playing in their video games. If you can...lasso that or create something with that, you've definitely got them.

Spencer Payne: Yeah, there's nothing like, if you want to get kids interested in reading, help find something that they're at least interested in reading, right? Like instead of forcing like, well, hey, read this book because that's just something that I had to do when I was, or whatever it is. Like, have something available that is at least catches their attention that is worth reading.

Tammy Irminger: Yes. Yeah.

Right, and then also when I have found a book that they are interested in, I can build that trust and then sneak in something that's got a little bit more heft to it after they trust me to make recommendations.

Spencer Payne: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if you feel this way reading books too, but like there are some times where when I'm in the first 50 pages of a book, I know if I'm hooked or not. like, I've looked at, I've got, I do a lot of reading. But yeah, within the first 50 pages, like I can tell if this is a book I want to go further on or not. And if I don't, if I'm not feeling it, like I'm putting it down and I'm starting a new one. Like,

Tammy Irminger: Yeah. the moon.

That's okay, it's okay. I teach kids it's okay to abandon books. There's way too many books out there to stay with when you don't like. And that has not always been my thought process. I'm not a quitter, so I would try and read books till the end, but I have learned through my education in the library world and also watching students. If I'm not into it, move on.

Spencer Payne: Yeah, there's plenty of other ones out there that you're gonna be into. I'm curious with when you're time in the classroom and now maybe it's different here as in your role as a librarian, how do you kind of set the tone with your new kids in the first say day or week or month of kind of what they should expect from you and what you should expect from them? How do you go about having kind of that...upfront kind of conversation contracts, whatever it is, so to speak. That way they have an understanding of when they walk into Ms. Irminger with the roar, her library, like, how do they know what to expect? How do they know what the standards are? How do you set that?

Tammy Irminger: Good job. Nice.

Yeah, think that with parents too, but even when you're having discussions with the students in the classroom, it's a partnership. And I tell them and their parents, we're working together through this year. We're going to learn a lot and we're going to play a lot. We're going to work hard, play hard. And I am definitely known throughout the building as one that has high expectations. And that's OK. I don't mind having that label.

I do know that students will rise to it if you hold them accountable, help them along the way. they know right off the bat, day one, I have very high expectations, but I'm going to be there with them to meet them.

Spencer Payne: And can you share a little more detail on that? Like what are some of those expectations? And especially because again, you've got kids who maybe have, they don't know what to expect in your class. They were used to a different school that did things totally differently. So what pushback maybe do you get from kids upfront? Is there testing your high expectations? Does she mean it? So can you give a little example of what maybe what some of those expectations are and maybe what if any consistently gets pushed back from students and how you handle that and still hold the standard?

Tammy Irminger: Mm-hmm. think that I give them a lot of leeway until it's abused. do expect them, and it's very hard because they can't sit still anymore, I do expect them to sit in their seats, and I do expect them to have their materials ready. And I feel like it does sound harsh at the beginning, day one, and the new students will maybe act like that wasn't the case in their old school, but I've been around the block enough to know that there aren't too many schools and classrooms that are vastly different than having those expectations of respect towards an adult.

Speaking when you raise your hand, I really do have maybe some old school expectations, but I feel like they set the...the tone for then if something fun and exciting comes along, then they're more apt to know how to handle themselves emotionally and while we're talking and discussing if they have those foundational expectations.

Spencer Payne: Yeah. Are there any specific examples of things that you're really make sure you hold the line on? and any things that maybe they, they might, again, you, you give them grace until it's abused, but like any, anything in particular that may be consistently toes, line of kids potentially abusing that you have to, you have to enforce a little more strictly. Any, any specific examples of things that they come up and how do you enforce that?

Tammy Irminger: Maybe the way that they speak to adults and their peers. feel like with technology and gaming sites, I feel like there is a very casual way that students talk to each other and then maybe they are trying to use that casual conversation with the way that they talk to adults. And I really try to...make sure they understand that that's different. There are different ways to talk to adults than there is to talk to their peers. It's still kindness, it's still respect, but I'm not a bruh or a bro and you can't get my attention with a hey. So again, I think that there's just this casual way that students talk to everyone.

Spencer Payne: And so as an example for that, like you mentioned, you're not going to get my attention with a, Hey, so if, you know, it's three weeks into the school year, five weeks in the school year, and someone says, Hey brah, and you know, it's directed at you. Like, will you just ignore them? Will you say, can you say that differently? Like, how do you, how do you kind of transition that to get them to refer to you as Mrs. Mrs. Erminger? Like, how do you go about doing that?

Tammy Irminger: Right. Yes.

Right. It's probably dependent on how comfortable we are with each other. If it's early on, I might pull them aside and just say, you know, this might be the way that you talk to your friends, but you know, here in school, this is how I'd like for you to address me. You I would like to address you the way that you want to be addressed. You know, how is that? And maybe have that casual conversation.

If it's the middle of the year or the end of the year and all of a sudden it slips out, I might, you know, bra them back. But I like to just pull them aside and say, you this is how I would like to be addressed. Unless it's, you know, the very beginning of the year, we might have a discussion, whole class. You know, this is how I'd like to be addressed. How would you like to be addressed?

Spencer Payne: Yeah, yeah. Part of it I also ask because again, my three-year-old loves to ask for things in not the nicest way sometimes. So one of the things that we're consistently doing is like, how can you ask that differently? Which is just a cue of like, all right, I'm not going to scold you necessarily on the first time, but like, hey, how can you ask that differently? And usually there's a quick response of like, can I please have that cheese puff, please? Like, there we go. Do it that way the first time, please, next time.

Tammy Irminger: Yes, absolutely. Yes. Yeah.

Yep, rephrase. Yep, yep, rephrase.

Spencer Payne: Yeah, yeah. After this extensive amount of time you've in the classroom, I'm curious to dig into some stories as you look back on this extensive career you've had in the classroom. Any proudest moments that jumped to the floor for you of maybe something you did, a student did, a class did, whatever it may be? Any proudest moments that maybe still you look back on and they make you smile or light up because you're just like, was such a great experience in the classroom? Anything rise to the top for you?

Tammy Irminger: gosh, let's see, in the classroom. I think there were some, I've always been known as the teacher who just wants to try something and I don't maybe necessarily know how it's going to end up, but we're just gonna try it and see what it's like. In the 12 years I taught fourth grade, there was two other teachers I taught with and we were such the three musketeers and one of them who retired just this past year, she was, the global thinker and she had to see it all played out before she would join in. And so I would say one of the most fun things we did was something that I actually started in Georgia, the three years that I taught third grade. But we used to do this Easter egg hunt, well, egg hunt, excuse me, egg hunt. And it was right before state testing, which, you know, unfortunately can feel like the end all be all.

And we would stuff the eggs with math and reading questions and we would throw them out in the field and have the kids go out there and grab X-mini, however many that we had, you know. And then they would come to parent volunteers who had answer keys and they would, the answer keys were color coded. I mean, it was this big production. And they would answer the questions and if they got them right, they got a piece of candy. even for the reading, we'd have these big passages blown up on posters and stuck to the modular trailer classrooms and they would go read the story and answer the questions. So and then I brought that to Fort Leavenworth here and they still do it even though I'm in the library those fourth grade teachers still do it. So that it's so exciting I even go out there and volunteer if I have a free block to help with the egg hunt because it was such a lot of fun.

Spencer Payne: mean, yeah, very cool. So something you started in one school in a whole different state, you brought here and now you're not even leading it, but because it's got such a, I don't know, it's built such an audience, like it's going on without you even so to speak. That's pretty cool. Yeah. And you mentioned, hey, like you're always trying things and sometimes they don't always work out. Any stories about things that just...

Tammy Irminger: Yes, my legacy, the egg hunt.

Spencer Payne: man, that didn't work. I'm definitely not doing that one again. Any stories on the other end of things that just did not go as you thought that you're able to share?

Tammy Irminger: Yeah, actually, yes, just recently. I've been wanting to do Battle of the Books since I was still in the classroom and I couldn't ever figure out how to make it work. It was in my mind just this big thing that there was no way I was going to be able to pull it off. And so I sort of backburnered it and then I moved in the library and I'm like, surely I can figure out how to do it. the librarian. the first couple of years, it was again put on the backburner. And then this past summer, I'm like, I'm doing it. I've just got to figure out the way to wait to work it, I talked to some fifth grade teachers, helped me figure out how to make this work. To battle each other, we decided they were going to do it during their specials time. And I asked the specials teachers, can I steal one day out of the month for them to do these battles? And they were on board.

And so I haven't fully read all of the 12 books that we battled. grabbed some Kansas award winners, Georgia award winners. And so I asked chat GPT to create these questions, these comprehension questions to go with each of these books and print them off, give them to all the volunteers to do the battles, because they're all going simultaneously. And one of the volunteers comes over and she says, none of these questions match the books that they're reading. The content's right, but the...the characters' names are wrong. so that's when I learned about hallucinations on ChatGPT. And so yes, I have definitely done some things in the end. That didn't work out, but we're still having a good time. And we're making it work and reading the books as fast as we can and rewriting the questions.

But I've had so many parents and teachers come up to me after the first battle and said, these...This is so awesome. The kids are loving reading again. They can't wait till the next battle. So even though it didn't go as planned at the beginning, we're still making it work.

Spencer Payne: All right, so we got ChatGPT just made up some characters in some of the books and just got things completely wrong. But can you help us understand the battle of the book of like, for those who might be like, maybe I'll bring my own questions, but like, how did this work? Like, what actually was the battle of the book? Just help understand what are the kids experiencing? Like, how do they win? Like, how was this game structured?

Tammy Irminger: Yeah, so it is a national thing, Battle of the Books. And so a list of books comes out every year. students who want to be a part of it, they form a team of two or three or however many you decide, whatever fits your school. And then those students read two books, least this is the way I'm handling it in our school. The fourth graders are reading two books and I think there's six teams seven teams and then the fifth graders are reading a separate set because I have to do it during their specials time and then they so they read two books a month and then they come together I have buzzers and We ask questions and they buzz in and they earn points accumulate points all throughout the year and we'll have a big celebration at the end and and Just celebrate the fact that they read, you know that many books and they hold each other accountable with their team.

And if one person didn't get a chance to read the whole book, hopefully their partner will be able to answer the questions because they did. And they're just really having a lot of fun with it. And I'm enjoying seeing them grow as readers too. And who doesn't love a good competition?

Spencer Payne: especially at that age, nobody doesn't love. Nobody.

Tammy Irminger: Yeah, they're eating it up. one of my fifth grade teachers, she has maybe 18, 19 kids in her class. And I think 15 of them are on team. So I really applaud her and thank her for encouraging her kids to do it because it's so much fun to watch them compete.

Spencer Payne: Okay, so Battle of the Book as potentially a way to also combat the maybe lack of attention in reading, like, there's a game involved.

Tammy Irminger: Yes, because, yeah, I have one graphic novel. I have some historical fiction. I have some realistic fiction. And so I even had a student catch me at duty this morning say, Mrs. Arminger, the book I'm reading is so sad. And I said, it gets better. And not all the books you read are going to be sad. But I love that they're really getting into it. And we even have a Google Classroom where I let them. I ask them questions or they'll check in and you know, how's your book going? You know, you should be halfway through your book by now and they'll chime in and tell me how they're liking their book too.

Spencer Payne: Very cool, very fun. That's the book for those who are looking for other activities for maybe some fourth, fifth, or other grades. Any wild, crazy stories through the years? Maybe they could be funny. Maybe they could be, that was really scary. Maybe they could be hilarious. I can't believe that kid said that. Anything strike you in your years in the classroom of wild, crazy, funny, energetic stories that you're able to share.

Tammy Irminger: I think that as a teacher community, we tend to do some crazy things. We did the Harlem Shake once. We videoed ourselves doing the Harlem Shake and showed the kids. Surviving COVID for sure is something I can definitely hang my hat on and say that that was the absolute hardest thing I've ever done. I remember coming home from the very first day when we were, so we were a year at home and then we came back late the next year and just were six feet apart and it was just awful. And I just stood in the middle of the living room floor and just cried and my husband's like, wow. And I said, yeah, that was hard. But I remember probably the craziest thing that ever happened to me was I've always had a bathtub in my classroom.

And it was just a fun place for kids to read. It's full of pillows. It's just an alternative place for kids to go and read when they have their work done. And I had a student, a particularly tough student, and couldn't find this student for a good five or eight minutes. And he wasn't feeling good that day. And he had burrowed himself underneath the pillows in that tub fallen asleep. So that was my heart attack moment is he was in the classroom the whole time. But yeah, that was terrifying. So now that bathtub is in my library and still loved by children, but your feet have to be hanging out of the side of the tub and you have to be on top of the pillows so I can see who is in it.

Spencer Payne: Where is he? is he? Now, how in the world did the first bathtub in the room story get started? How did this start?

Tammy Irminger: Yeah, that so I taught third grade. That was my very first public school experience and I just growing I must have had a tub in one of the classrooms growing up because I always said I'm going to have a tub in my classroom because what a cool thing to have in there to read and so I don't even know how I acquired this tub and so I I had even had teachers, I even made these little bathtub passes and teachers who were having trouble or needed a boost with other students, they could bring that pass to my room if the tub was empty, the tub was free, they could hang out in there for a few minutes. So it's been a draw and even after four years in the library, it's still people, students get their books as fast as they can and they either race into the tub or I have a tent also that they can get into and read.

Spencer Payne: So yeah, make an interesting seating arrangement, whatever it may be, that's a little outside the normal and the kids will want to be the first one to read in that cool seating arrangement.

okay. Fascinating. Thank you for that. Tub in the classroom and the library. Never heard of that one before. but the kids, but the kids love it. So if the kids love it, like just follow along, do the things that they love, right? any things that you've consistently done in your career that just seemed to work really, really well for you, that maybe you're surprised other people don't do, or you've advised other people to do that thing or those things, and they just don't.

Tammy Irminger: I'm in the classroom. They do. Yeah, all for the children.

Spencer Payne: that just don't seem to catch on. So anything that just seems to really work for you that you're surprised other people don't do more of as well.

Tammy Irminger: gosh,

No, I actually pride myself in learning from other teachers, especially the new teachers that are just coming out. They always have really great ideas and fresh stamina and energy. So I feel like I learn more from them on things that, know, what works for you. I always lean on them consistently, I would just say being consistent. Having continuity in your classroom. If you try to change things up too much, then students aren't going to know what to do and what is commonplace. I feel like having consistent rules and expectations and procedures, I feel like would be what I do that's consistent.

Spencer Payne: Well, you alluded to earlier that you're known amongst other teachers as having maybe high standards. Can you share maybe a little bit more about that? Actually, I'm curious to dig into what, if anything, are some things that you have standards on that other teachers are like, you're still doing that? Or you really expect them to do that? Or I'm curious to dig into that a little bit. What are some things that you hold standards on that maybe are higher than maybe what some other teachers might do?

You mentioned earlier that if you hold that standard, oftentimes you'll see the kids actually rise to it. So I'd love to dig into that a little bit more of like, what's an example of a high standard that you set and how do see kids rise to it?

Tammy Irminger: Probably noise level. I don't think I'm a sushi librarian, but even in the classroom, feel like students, even though they might need to hum or tap or wiggle their foot or be in a flexible seat, I really think that we have to have calm minds and calm bodies to work. so I think that is something that I'm kind of a stickler on is noise level. I know that might sound lame, but I just really think that it's just become the norm to just be tapping or humming or moving and that's hard for us to concentrate and get attention and have attention, hold attention if we're constantly moving about or making noise. So I'm a stickler on noise level.

Spencer Payne: Perfect. Any tough times in your career? Times where you've kind of questioned like, my gosh, this is a tough class. I've got a really tough student. Do I really want to do this? Or just like, gosh, I have to face this situation again tomorrow. Any particularly tough times and then how have you kind of navigated that and bounced back and figured out how to fill your own cup to kind of...keep showing up and being on the next day. So any tough times and how do you bounce back and what might you advise others who are in a tough spot, maybe in their classroom right

Tammy Irminger: Yeah, I think that sometimes when we have difficult students or maybe parents that the partnership isn't as strong, maybe there's a difference in values or a difference in the approach, you really have to fall back on your team, whether it's your teaching team or your grade level team. You cannot be your island and you can't take that on alone. And if you have good admin, you just can't try and handle that all on your own. And I am definitely the first to admit that I have had to go to my teacher team or my grade level or my admin and get advice, even after 20 years. How do I approach this parent? How do I rebuild that partnership? Because it's a very long year.

And if it's only day 40, there's no way we can continue the way that we're going. having tough conversations is not my strong suit. I avoid confrontation at all costs, but there are times when you do have to try to rebuild that relationship so that you can not go home depleted and do want to come back because you have a game plan.

Spencer Payne: Yeah, and again, you don't have to share any names, but just out of curiosity, any examples of some of those tough moments that you might be able to share that I'm sure if you've experienced it, probably many other teachers have experienced it and wondered like, oh, geez, how do I handle this? Any specific examples of any aspect? I again, you mentioned kind of relationship with parents who just don't seem to be like you're on the same page. Any specific examples that you might be able or willing to share and how do you handle those? After you confront your team and kind of get some advice of how should I handle this? Any, you know, guess, redemption of what did you do? Did it work out? What happened next?

Tammy Irminger: Yeah, I think sometimes when you have parents who believe one way how education should be approached or maybe how family time or evening time is spent, there can be a little pushback. I don't believe in homework. There is no really strong evidence to support that it helps out.

I do think that once students leave school, know, should, kids should be kids, but I think sometimes when kids are overloaded with after school activities, that can be hard on students then to handle the stress of school. And so having those conversations about balance can be tough. And then I would just, you know, go to a  teacher that I know has either had that situation before or always have given me good advice in the past to how to broach those conversations. And it's just hard to speak to those things without talking specifics. No. Right. Mm-hmm.

Spencer Payne: Yeah, don't wanna give anything away. I'm trying to look for some general principles that might help others who might be in that type of a situation right now. What a couple more quick fire, rapid fire type of questions as we wrap up here. But what if anything might be the number one piece of advice that you share with a brand new teacher who might be, right now it's November or recording. They might have been teaching for two months. They might be wondering, oh my gosh, what am I doing? any advice, what's the number one piece of advice you might share with a brand new teacher who might be starting out there today?

Tammy Irminger: I think I probably made this mistake a couple of times, either changing grade levels or changing my profession. You can't do it all. And I had such fun, exciting things that I wanted to try. And it was at the cost of the routines and procedures put in place. When you try too many things at once, then the kids get overwhelmed. And you get overwhelmed too. So start out small.

Pick out the must-haves, the die on the mountain things, and make sure that you have those set and the students are following those without having to be told. Find those routines and procedures, those two or three things. And then after that, build on trying new things and doing those one or two at a time.

Spencer Payne: And your masters, can you share any approach of like, did you choose to go get it? Did you not? And just your rationale behind whatever you chose. Can you share a little bit about approach to getting a master's and maybe what you might recommend to folks who are thinking about it today?

Tammy Irminger: Yeah, I do recommend getting your masters. I did not get my masters until I was 40. I don't recommend that. I don't recommend waiting. If it is something that you're interested in, and I highly recommend it, if you took any time off, I would say don't take much because it was hard at the beginning to get back into the swing of things because you are, you know, you're a full-time teacher and then you might be a, you know, a mom and a wife or a spouse.

And so that is very hard to juggle, but don't wait too long. think that getting my masters, both of them, helped me dig in deeper to my craft. I feel like your undergrad helps you teach content and your masters helps you understand the long game, if you will. It helps you understand what you're doing and what you're teaching affects students over time. Now, I don't get to see that, obviously, because the students move on, but I know with their successes that what I'm doing is making a difference. But I feel like your masters really helps you hone in on the specifics of what you are interested in, because you can be specific with that masters.

Spencer Payne: and what to you is the single best thing about this profession, education.

Tammy Irminger: I hate to be cliche and say the aha moments, but I really do think that we have a very hard job and I feel like every day we come to school, even if we were beat down the day before and we decide it's a fresh slate, we're going to try again. I feel like we have such resilience and I think that I applaud all my fellow educators because I feel like that because our job is so hard and we keep coming back and that's a testament to us.

Spencer Payne: And on that note, what do you think is the single toughest or hardest thing about this profession? Or if you could wave a magic wand at one thing and change it, where would you point that one?

Tammy Irminger: Screens. really, I feel like it's such a double-edged sword. I feel like they, we want our students to be tech savvy because that's our world. You know, they do need to be proficient in technology and some go into technology as a profession, but kids need to be kids. And I feel like at times it can kind of take over and then sort of negate some things that we have been successful in and so screens.

Spencer Payne: Are screens allowed in your school or in your library or when you were kind of in classrooms today? they been kind of, you have to lock them up. Like what's your school and your kind of policy these days?

Tammy Irminger: We are a one-to-one school. We are very tech-rich environment, and we do a lot of things on screens. I think that then to say they need to be limited when they go home or at recess or at lunch and just have those non-screen times needs to be there for the balance.

But yes, we are one to one and we are very tech rich.

Spencer Payne: And if there was one thing, two things that you wish maybe the public at large who were not educators, or their parents aren't educators, or they haven't walked a mile in your shoes, if there was one or two things that you wish folks out there would know about what it takes to be an educator today, what would you want them to know? What would you wish that they would walk away from learning from this if they have never been an educator before?

Tammy Irminger: gosh, Grace, give us grace. We love your children and we want the best for them just like you do and a partner with us. We have a very tough job. We have lots of little beings in our room with lots of different personalities and lots of needs and lots of levels of understanding and it takes a lot of heart and brain power and we do it with such grace and we would hope that you would extend that grace also.

Spencer Payne: and any final words of wisdom, anything that we didn't get a chance to talk about that you wish we did that you want to share or anything that we did talk about, but maybe it's so important you want to just say it one more time. So any new or repeated words of wisdom.

Tammy Irminger: build relationships. The curriculum will come, the students will show up, they will be taught, and they will be successful. They will build those relationships with your students and create an environment that the students can build relationships with each other also.

Spencer Payne: Well, thank you for your real stories from a real educator, Tammy Erminger. And for those out there, yes, you can still hold those standards high. You can do it. And there's ways that you can go about holding that standard, even while giving a little slack while kids are learning as they test you. So thank you so much for sharing your story, Tammy. Appreciate you.

Tammy Irminger: Thank you, thanks for having me, Spencer.